"July" 5, 1968 tape in the archives

[hkmartin]

So, today I listened to this tape which has been discussed on several different threads here. It was playing at a listening station at the Lou Reed Exhibit at the New York Public Library at Lincoln Center.

There was some discussion about whether Cale is on this tape, since he was still in the band in July. He is not on the tape. These are all different mixes of the studio recordings we know. It's pretty clear that whoever dated this was not good with Roman numerals. The tape, as noted in another thread, is dated as XII 5, 1968. XII is, of course, 12 (December), not 7 (July). I think we can say definitively that the July 5, 1968 date for this tape is just wrong.

All that said, they were very enjoyable mixes. They sounded balanced and clear. Lou's rhythm guitar is much more audible than in either of the released mixes. I agree with Jason Stern that these are preferable to two released mixes.

Tracks are:
Jesus
Pale Blue Eyes
Beginning To See the Life
Story of My Life
Afterhours (listed as "If You Close the Door" on the tape)

Note at the exhibit said: "Alternate mixes of the band's self-titled 3rd album: Rough mixes that Reed received from Angel Balestier during the band's recording sessions at TTG Studios in Los Angeles, CA in November and December 1968".

Oddly, the incorrect July 5 date was also listed on another card.

The actual box that the tape was in was on display, which was kind of cool.

Another odd thing is this is one of the tapes that, outside the special exhibit, is not available for listening at the archives. Clearly it's been digitized. And it's just unheard mixes of released material. I wonder why you can't just go to the library and listen to it?

[Mark]

So now we know. Thanks for clearing up that mystery, even though it's not the answer that a lot of us were hoping for!

[iaredatsun]

Thanks for clearing this up.

One thing still puzzles me – Jason Stern called the material he was discussing 'demos', not 'mixes'. Also, you'd have thought it would take a bit more than a rough mix to make him remark how much he preferred them to the released versions.

[Driven Insane]

So, today I listened to this tape which has been discussed on several different threads here. It was playing at a listening station at the Lou Reed Exhibit at the New York Public Library at Lincoln Center.

There was some discussion about whether Cale is on this tape, since he was still in the band in July. He is not on the tape. These are all different mixes of the studio recordings we know. It's pretty clear that whoever dated this was not good with Roman numerals. The tape, as noted in another thread, is dated as XII 5, 1968. XII is, of course, 12 (December), not 7 (July). I think we can say definitively that the July 5, 1968 date for this tape is just wrong.

All that said, they were very enjoyable mixes. They sounded balanced and clear. Lou's rhythm guitar is much more audible than in either of the released mixes. I agree with Jason Stern that these are preferable to two released mixes.

Tracks are:
Jesus
Pale Blue Eyes
Beginning To See the Life
Story of My Life
Afterhours (listed as "If You Close the Door" on the tape)

Note at the exhibit said: "Alternate mixes of the band's self-titled 3rd album: Rough mixes that Reed received from Angel Balestier during the band's recording sessions at TTG Studios in Los Angeles, CA in November and December 1968".

Oddly, the incorrect July 5 date was also listed on another card.

The actual box that the tape was in was on display, which was kind of cool.

Another odd thing is this is one of the tapes that, outside the special exhibit, is not available for listening at the archives. Clearly it's been digitized. And it's just unheard mixes of released material. I wonder why you can't just go to the library and listen to it?

Interesting stuff. Thank you.

[iaredatsun]

Another odd thing is this is one of the tapes that, outside the special exhibit, is not available for listening at the archives. Clearly it's been digitized. And it's just unheard mixes of released material. I wonder why you can't just go to the library and listen to it?

My gut instinct probably misleads me into hoping that UMG have plans on releasing it and dont want any access to it that could see it being taped

[hkmartin]

There's an interested new program up in the Listening Room at the library:
https://www.nypl.org/events/exhibitions/lou-reed

The Velvet Underground in Mono
Lou Reed Piano Demos
Velvet Underground, Steinway Hall, Chicago
"Ondine" Demos with Lou Reed, John Cale, and Nico
"12-String" Demos
"Ocean" Demo
"Candy Says" Alternate Mix
"Some Kinda Love" Alternate Mix
"Murder Mystery" Alternate Mix
"Pale Blue Eyes" Alternate Mix
"Beginning to See the Light" Alternate Mix
"Foggy Notion" Alternate Mix

Those Alternate Mixes from the 3rd album are not ones you can normally listen to at the library (for unknown reasons). There's some overlap with the titles I heard inside the exhibition from the incorrectly dated "July 5" tape when I was there, but Candy Says, Murder Mystery and Some Kinda Love were not on that tape. It may be a clerical error, but I can't even find any listing of Candy Says from the 3rd album sessions in the archives at all. I wonder which of the two takes of Soma Kinda Love this is?

If anyone has a chance, the listening room has a really great sound system. When I was there in July, I listened to the Electric Symphony, and it sounded great. (And, when I was there, there was nobody watching to make sure folks didn't pull out their phones and hit record, so it doesn't seem like they were overly protective of the material.)

[lupinspike]

Hi hkmartin, could you please describe the process of viewing stuff from the archives? Do you have to fill out forms?

[mangue]

There's an interested new program up in the Listening Room at the library:
https://www.nypl.org/events/exhibitions/lou-reed

The Velvet Underground in Mono
Lou Reed Piano Demos
Velvet Underground, Steinway Hall, Chicago
"Ondine" Demos with Lou Reed, John Cale, and Nico
"12-String" Demos
"Ocean" Demo
"Candy Says" Alternate Mix
"Some Kinda Love" Alternate Mix
"Murder Mystery" Alternate Mix
"Pale Blue Eyes" Alternate Mix
"Beginning to See the Light" Alternate Mix
"Foggy Notion" Alternate Mix

Somebody knows more about "Velvet Underground, Steinway Hall, Chicago"?

According to the original NYPL info, this recording is "circa 1967" and contains both Reed and Cale [viola!], but there's no info about the Velvet Underground playing Chicago in 1967. Some further brainstorming about the timeline:
--1966.June can be ruled out as Reed is present
--1968.Feb.01, could be around the presentation of WLWH at Aardvark, Chicago [note tape also contains a VU interview; may be by Tom Wilson, but could be also for a radio station or newspaper]
--1968.Apr.19-20, could be around the shows at the Electric Theater, Chicago


As a bonus [listed on above linked page: "Celebrate Lou Reed With Us"] you can listen to a selections of doo-wop 45s from Lou Reed's archive as spun by Lenny Kaye for Lou's 80th birthday
https://soundcloud.com/thelotradio/lou- ... 03-02-2022

[hkmartin]

Somebody knows more about "Velvet Underground, Steinway Hall, Chicago"?

According to the original NYPL info, this recording is "circa 1967" and contains both Reed and Cale [viola!], but there's no info about the Velvet Underground playing Chicago in 1967. Some further brainstorming about the timeline:
--1966.June can be ruled out as Reed is present
--1968.Feb.01, could be around the presentation of WLWH at Aardvark, Chicago [note tape also contains a VU interview; may be by Tom Wilson, but could be also for a radio station or newspaper]
--1968.Apr.19-20, could be around the shows at the Electric Theater, Chicago

I've heard the "Chicago" tape at the library. There's no live full band performance or anything, but "piano/vocals" is an interesting, otherwise unknown song. Maybe a few other song fragments. The interview is strange. It seems to have been taped shortly after WL/WH was released, so the February date is probably right. The interviewer's main interest is in trying to get the band to admit to taking acid during the recording sessions (they say they didn't, though they make it clear that it would have been just fine if they had). It's mostly Sterling talking, though Lou and Cale jump in. If I recall, Moe, if she was there, doesn't say anything. During the course of the interview, the interviewer admits that he hadn't actually heard WL/WH yet.

As a bonus [listed on above linked page: "Celebrate Lou Reed With Us"] you can listen to a selections of doo-wop 45s from Lou Reed's archive as spun by Lenny Kaye for Lou's 80th birthday
https://soundcloud.com/thelotradio/lou- ... 03-02-2022

I watched the Lenny Kaye thing. It streamed live when it was happening. It was fun, though it was mostly Lenny Kaye's collection (which is great) and not Lou's. Only three of the songs Lenny Kaye played were actually from Lou's collection. (I found out which 3 - I think I can find it if anyone is interested).