Lamenting Lack of VU Releases...

[dial4]

Ok so no soundboard tape exists, apart the ones from bootlegs like the Gymnasium or perhaps The Matrix. The Doors '70 tapes are very good to excellent (sound & performance), only the Matrix show is a shitty dub from a fourth generation copy from a Swingin' Pig set and the Boot Yer Butt is an insult I think. For The Stooges and Iggy & the Stooges, my only complaint is the price of the Raw Power 5 disc set.

[django70]

Ok so no soundboard tape exists, apart the ones from bootlegs like the Gymnasium or perhaps The Matrix. The Doors '70 tapes are very good to excellent (sound & performance), only the Matrix show is a shitty dub from a fourth generation copy from a Swingin' Pig set and the Boot Yer Butt is an insult I think. For The Stooges and Iggy & the Stooges, my only complaint is the price of the Raw Power 5 disc set.

Actually, read back to the start of the post and you will see that there are a number of soundboards that do or are fairly certain to exist. Granted, nowhere to the degree of say The Doors. There just happens to be a fair degree of difficulty in bringing them to light. Keep in mind, we are in a point in time where more things are coming out of the woodwork on many fronts. I recently read that a excellent Syd Barrett era Floyd boot has been unearthed from Denmark. Considering what a huge band Pink Floyd is, they have been left lacking in the live dept. for Syd stuff for some time. Not counting the endless alternate mixes of studio and BBC stuff. We as VU fans have done much better. The Matrix 69 VU soundboards do most certainly exist. As do high quality Max's stuff. Check out Olivers site, there is a lot of good info pertaining to what is allegedly in existence.

[MJG196]

That big Deluxe release of VU&N from a few years back. Jesus...I found a better sounding copy of the mono album on bootleg!

Ya know, there are vinyl maniac sites around the Internet who make it a hobby to clean and transfer LPs on setups worth more than my car. I find those sound INCREDIBLE. Actually, I stopped purchasing Rolling Stones remasters and now go straight to these hobbyists' sites. Demonoid has many of these torrents.

I think the reason these past few years have seen so many Stooges releases is because Iggy is as into his past as much as his fans are!

[dial4]

When you were young (the peak of your power), title of a Roxy Music bootleg. As soon as Lou Reed dies, there'll be a lot of releases. For the Floyd '67 tape, it's known to exist for years. But as soon as Syd and Rick died, a lot of people are talkin' of it again and again.

[BallroomDays67]

Well, we can agree to disagree. I will agree that the overwhelming glut of 69 era shows is not going to rope in the more moderate fans anymore. However I feel that much of what has been released showcase the band in pretty high form. If we're talking about a decline, that really boils down to Morrison. The band sounds pretty damn good on much of these recordings and they have been careful to choose shows where Jim was not shattered. When I mentioned about Manzarek and the tapes, he referenced the fact that many things recorded at that period were no longer in the possession of them or the label.

There is however a good point about hurting a legacy, and that is why future VU releases should be handled with care and patience. Much like the 67 Doors Matrix set, The Quine Tapes although great, should really have been held off on. The soundboards came up around the same time, and despite having a difficult owner, should have been secured. I love the Quine set immensely, but I think the sound quality was not up to the sort of general release it received. It just seemed at the time the response was rather lukewarm because it wasn't sonically what a lot of people expected. And sadly I think many could not get past that point and hear the great music underneath. I got the feeling that a lot of the less militant fans felt that the well was dry.

I can't agree that they've been careful in selecting shows for release. They've released pretty much everything in the way of 1970 soundboards. All they have left are a couple of shows in lesser sound quality that were recorded by their road manager. One of those, Seattle, is the bottom of the barrel.

Had the VU recorded shows in preparation for a live album, I think it would have been a totally different story. In '67 and '68, The Doors were an amazing live band. I'd rate them right up there with the VU in terms of quality of performance. The move to larger venues, the Miami fiasco, and Jim Morrison's growing disinterest all took their toll. By 1970, when they were recording these shows, they were well past their prime. Judging by the Boston Tea Party, End of Cole Ave. and "Live at Max's" recordings, the VU's live performances also changed over the years, but always remained top notch. Had later-day soundboard recordings been made and released in the same manner as The Doors CDs, you also wouldn't be getting a good overall picture of the VU's live performance history, but you'd still be left with the impression that they were an amazing live band.

[django70]

Well, we can agree to disagree. I will agree that the overwhelming glut of 69 era shows is not going to rope in the more moderate fans anymore. However I feel that much of what has been released showcase the band in pretty high form. If we're talking about a decline, that really boils down to Morrison. The band sounds pretty damn good on much of these recordings and they have been careful to choose shows where Jim was not shattered. When I mentioned about Manzarek and the tapes, he referenced the fact that many things recorded at that period were no longer in the possession of them or the label.

There is however a good point about hurting a legacy, and that is why future VU releases should be handled with care and patience. Much like the 67 Doors Matrix set, The Quine Tapes although great, should really have been held off on. The soundboards came up around the same time, and despite having a difficult owner, should have been secured. I love the Quine set immensely, but I think the sound quality was not up to the sort of general release it received. It just seemed at the time the response was rather lukewarm because it wasn't sonically what a lot of people expected. And sadly I think many could not get past that point and hear the great music underneath. I got the feeling that a lot of the less militant fans felt that the well was dry.

I can't agree that they've been careful in selecting shows for release. They've released pretty much everything in the way of 1970 soundboards. All they have left are a couple of shows in lesser sound quality that were recorded by their road manager. One of those, Seattle, is the bottom of the barrel.

Had the VU recorded shows in preparation for a live album, I think it would have been a totally different story. In '67 and '68, The Doors were an amazing live band. I'd rate them right up there with the VU in terms of quality of performance. The move to larger venues, the Miami fiasco, and Jim Morrison's growing disinterest all took their toll. By 1970, when they were recording these shows, they were well past their prime. Judging by the Boston Tea Party, End of Cole Ave. and "Live at Max's" recordings, the VU's live performances also changed over the years, but always remained top notch. Had later-day soundboard recordings been made and released in the same manner as The Doors CDs, you also wouldn't be getting a good overall picture of the VU's live performance history, but you'd still be left with the impression that they were an amazing live band.

Well at the risk of turning this into a Doors forum, I'll just say that I've never heard of "Morrison Hotel" or "L.A.Woman" as being referred to as past their prime albums. Such is the subjectivity of opinion. On the same token I've spoken to VU fans who will tell you it was all down hill after Cale left, so once again, it's really personal opinion.

[BallroomDays67]

I agree about "Morrison Hotel" and "L.A. Woman." I was referring only to their live shows, and not their studio albums.

[iaredatsun]

Well, it is nice to see Berlin finally get it's rightful due as a career milestone. And although not in a mainstream sense, I would have to say that MMM has settled in very nicely as a touchstone for everyone from Sonic Youth to Phillip Glass. If you get the chance to hear the Zeitkratzer Metal Machine Music live performance with Lou. It is a lot of fun. Now what I am waiting for is the resurgence of "Sally Can't Dance". Seriously, call it a guilty pleasure, but I really like that album.

I think MMM and Coney Island Baby were the last LPs I bought by Lou Reed before I fell out of love with his solo work. And I agree that MMM stands up very well today. And beyond the notoriety it gained, the thing that strikes me is just how musical it has come to sound. I'll check out the Zeitkratzer version some day.

I also like Sally Can't Ride and I don't feel at all guilty. I grew intrigued by it's poor reputation and went out and found a remaster copy. I hadn't heard it in many many years but I like the production and the songs. It's quite refreshing and Reed sounds very relaxed and in good spirits on it. In some ways it reminds me of Coney Island Baby - my favourite song-based LP of his. It makes me think that Reed shines the most when he is not in total control of his own sound, like when he has a good producer to work with.

[django70]

Well, it is nice to see Berlin finally get it's rightful due as a career milestone. And although not in a mainstream sense, I would have to say that MMM has settled in very nicely as a touchstone for everyone from Sonic Youth to Phillip Glass. If you get the chance to hear the Zeitkratzer Metal Machine Music live performance with Lou. It is a lot of fun. Now what I am waiting for is the resurgence of "Sally Can't Dance". Seriously, call it a guilty pleasure, but I really like that album.

I think MMM and Coney Island Baby were the last LPs I bought by Lou Reed before I fell out of love with his solo work. And I agree that MMM stands up very well today. And beyond the notoriety it gained, the thing that strikes me is just how musical it has come to sound. I'll check out the Zeitkratzer version some day.

I also like Sally Can't Ride and I don't feel at all guilty. I grew intrigued by it's poor reputation and went out and found a remaster copy. I hadn't heard it in many many years but I like the production and the songs. It's quite refreshing and Reed sounds very relaxed and in good spirits on it. In some ways it reminds me of Coney Island Baby - my favourite song-based LP of his. It makes me think that Reed shines the most when he is not in total control of his own sound, like when he has a good producer to work with.

It's not guilty so much as I find myself defending it an awful lot. I definitely prefer it to everything between Street Hassle and The Blue Mask. And a lot afterword. P.S. This is not really a point for contention. It's just how I feel.

I do love the strange junkie-soul, proto punk-psych-funk sound he has on this album and the 74 era live shows. Just really unique and cool.

[django70]

When you were young (the peak of your power), title of a Roxy Music bootleg. As soon as Lou Reed dies, there'll be a lot of releases. For the Floyd '67 tape, it's known to exist for years. But as soon as Syd and Rick died, a lot of people are talkin' of it again and again.

"Known to Exist" is like the tree that falls in the woods. If there is no one there to here it does it make a sound? When it gets played, when people hear it, then it takes on a whole new meaning.