Lamenting Lack of VU Releases...

[django70]

Well, I do agree that it would be wonderful if somebody at Universal understood the concept of doing a limited edition aimed at the diehards. I personally love the Quine box. Sadly you'll never move the kind of numbers they were expecting with an audience recording. The record labels really by and large still don't get it, and Rhino has been one of the few that seems to understand the value of doing smaller batch items for the love of doing it. I have to say I have been a big fan of Rhino through out the years. And they do handle a lot of music that I really like ( 60's Soul, STAX, garage, etc.). Disc for disc, they really seem to put out a good product. Their "Handmade" division is a lovely answer to the question of putting out music that should be put out but might never make the big cash. Or doing it in such a over the top way. The stooges Funhouse set stands as something that is so insanely, wonderfully excessive that no other label would have had the balls or knowledge to do right. But of course as you guys are well aware, If you take a walk to the Stooges Forum, there seems to me to be a lot of unhappiness over how much of the stooges recent issues have been handled. Some of which strikes me as fair, however a lot that is so unbelievably negative and whiny. I don't want to sound like gramps who walked to school 9 miles barefoot in the snow, but...jesus, when i got a fifth generation bootleg cassette of any of these guys in the 80's I would listen to it till my head exploded. Sometimes I wonder if it's more about collecting for some people then the music itself.

P.S. MJG -- I love your blog. Really great stuff!!

[MJG196]

Well, I do agree that it would be wonderful if somebody at Universal understood the concept of doing a limited edition aimed at the diehards. I personally love the Quine box. Sadly you'll never move the kind of numbers they were expecting with an audience recording. The record labels really by and large still don't get it, and Rhino has been one of the few that seems to understand the value of doing smaller batch items for the love of doing it. I have to say I have been a big fan of Rhino through out the years. And they do handle a lot of music that I really like ( 60's Soul, STAX, garage, etc.). Disc for disc, they really seem to put out a good product. Their "Handmade" division is a lovely answer to the question of putting out music that should be put out but might never make the big cash. Or doing it in such a over the top way. The stooges Funhouse set stands as something that is so insanely, wonderfully excessive that no other label would have had the balls or knowledge to do right. But of course as you guys are well aware, If you take a walk to the Stooges Forum, there seems to me to be a lot of unhappiness over how much of the stooges recent issues have been handled. Some of which strikes me as fair, however a lot that is so unbelievably negative and whiny. I don't want to sound like gramps who walked to school 9 miles barefoot in the snow, but...jesus, when i got a fifth generation bootleg cassette of any of these guys in the 80's I would listen to it till my head exploded. Sometimes I wonder if it's more about collecting for some people then the music itself.

P.S. MJG -- I love your blog. Really great stuff!!

Thank you!

Yeah, the Stooges forum has A LOT of whining. Remember the endless bitching about the Raw Power remaster? Why not the Embassy Reels...blah blah blah?!?! LOL As for all your other points, very well put. I still dream that there is a boutique label out there who can treat the VU as well as Easy Action has treated Iggy.

[django70]

Just a few odd thoughts:

It is my understanding that there were 2 sets recorded at the Gymnasium. Possibly one was a rehearsal, hence the second version of "Guess I'm Falling In Love". Clinton Heylin alleges that "Venus In Furs" was performed in his "All Yesterdays Parties" book. Whatever you think of Heylin ( I know he pissed off a few people when he interviewed for "From The Velvets To The Voidoids"), he did seem to have a pretty accurate description of songs from that show years before we heard them, so I'm inclined to believe he heard it. For years Cale has also stated that "Walk And Talk It" was performed "With A Good Guitar Sound" at that show. I would gladly have my tubes tied to hear this, I thought the band sounds fucking great on this show.

As for the Matrix tapes, I remember talking to one of the guys involved with getting the Quine set released. He had some dealings with the guy who had these recordings at around the same time. The person with said tapes was very closely related to The Family Dog, and was reputed to be fairly flaky at best and extremely paranoid at worst. Basically my understanding was his price was rather irrational and even when there was a possibility that could have been overcome, his unwillingness to allow the tapes out of his sight made the whole project unworkable.

There also remains the shadow of the Fillmore West 66 shows. It has been said that Bill Graham taped and saved everything. So the possibility that show exists is very high. Unfortunately we now have the unlikely situation of 2 notoriously difficult legal camps working out a deal. Sad. As an aside, friends of mine who worked for Hilly at CB's have said that he too, had everything soundboarded and saved going back to the early days. That makes my head swell!

I know that Tony Conrad was holding a number of things including "Primitives" rehearsals. I guess word got out that he was playing those recordings for various people. A very nervous Cale asked for the tapes back, stating something to the effect: "You don't know what Lou's lawyer's can do!"

Lastly there are reputed to be soundboards of 69 Seattle, and Max's 70 shows that are logged down by high prices. This stuff exists, and I'm inclined to think that we'll hear some of it. We just need some of these Boomers to get a little older, and have some bills that need to get paid!

Oh yeah, one last thought. Does the idea of Danny Field's Max's rehearsal on the opposite side of that Ungano's box make anyone else's mind race?

....etc,etc.... By the way MJG, you said about Lou hating his past. You know I love his solo work as well as you do. But I don't think he really has ever gotten over the fact that his real claim on history was being part of a group. Man, I think that just burns him...

[stooge]

Hi django70. I really did like to read you. It makes me feel like I'm normal ..
Indeed, those "existing" tapes caused me headaches for years now (although I didn't know about a Seattle soundboard show).
Some people on this board probably knows my foundness for the Matrix tapes and from times to times I did have some "big screams"
for them being officially released. For a little while, I started being tired of that, and lawers and high price ,people who say no for whatever reasons and so on
It bores me
I'm totally agree with MG about the Stooges and Easy Action
It's clear that good stuff with good sound that we never heard remain in the vaults somewhere and we absolutly need to hear that but when?
So sad

[MJG196]

Just a few odd thoughts:

It is my understanding that there were 2 sets recorded at the Gymnasium. Possibly one was a rehearsal, hence the second version of "Guess I'm Falling In Love". Clinton Heylin alleges that "Venus In Furs" was performed in his "All Yesterdays Parties" book. Whatever you think of Heylin ( I know he pissed off a few people when he interviewed for "From The Velvets To The Voidoids"), he did seem to have a pretty accurate description of songs from that show years before we heard them, so I'm inclined to believe he heard it. For years Cale has also stated that "Walk And Talk It" was performed "With A Good Guitar Sound" at that show. I would gladly have my tubes tied to hear this, I thought the band sounds fucking great on this show.

As for the Matrix tapes, I remember talking to one of the guys involved with getting the Quine set released. He had some dealings with the guy who had these recordings at around the same time. The person with said tapes was very closely related to The Family Dog, and was reputed to be fairly flaky at best and extremely paranoid at worst. Basically my understanding was his price was rather irrational and even when there was a possibility that could have been overcome, his unwillingness to allow the tapes out of his sight made the whole project unworkable.

There also remains the shadow of the Fillmore West 66 shows. It has been said that Bill Graham taped and saved everything. So the possibility that show exists is very high. Unfortunately we now have the unlikely situation of 2 notoriously difficult legal camps working out a deal. Sad. As an aside, friends of mine who worked for Hilly at CB's have said that he too, had everything soundboarded and saved going back to the early days. That makes my head swell!

I know that Tony Conrad was holding a number of things including "Primitives" rehearsals. I guess word got out that he was playing those recordings for various people. A very nervous Cale asked for the tapes back, stating something to the effect: "You don't know what Lou's lawyer's can do!"

Lastly there are reputed to be soundboards of 69 Seattle, and Max's 70 shows that are logged down by high prices. This stuff exists, and I'm inclined to think that we'll hear some of it. We just need some of these Boomers to get a little older, and have some bills that need to get paid!

Oh yeah, one last thought. Does the idea of Danny Field's Max's rehearsal on the opposite side of that Ungano's box make anyone else's mind race?

....etc,etc.... By the way MJG, you said about Lou hating his past. You know I love his solo work as well as you do. But I don't think he really has ever gotten over the fact that his real claim on history was being part of a group. Man, I think that just burns him...

Ya know, I don't know if that's it. Wouldn't you say by the late 70s his mainstream fans were "Lou Reed" fans, with easy access to almost all of his solo material and with relatively little access to VU stuff?

I think it may come from his desire for people to watch what he's doing NOW, as opposed to what he did before. He won't even discuss is 70s persona... That's why I found it incredible he gathered Steve Hunter to tour Berlin (and a short East Coast tour). It was the first time since Doug Yule in the mid-70s that he brought in someone from the past to help out in the present (I think I am right by saying that!). I dare his next interviewer to ask, "Have you heard from Rachel?"

It's too bad, because - as I have mentioned previously - his solo catalog has not been treated all that well. What about a Rock N Roll Animal box set with book of photos and maybe a live show from the tour? Why leave Lou Reed Live out there when it's really a fantastic disc?!?!

[django70]

I always thought that they should have just put the two albums together and released it as a "Rock And Roll Animal - Uncut" double disc.

[MJG196]

I always thought that they should have just put the two albums together and released it as a "Rock And Roll Animal - Uncut" double disc.

Well, since we are throwing some rumors around, why not another? When RNRA was getting the remaster treatment, rumor has it Lou nixed the idea of a double-disc reissue.

[iaredatsun]

I always thought that they should have just put the two albums together and released it as a "Rock And Roll Animal - Uncut" double disc.

Good idea. I thought that they could have called it "Rock And Roll Animals".

[iaredatsun]

....etc,etc.... By the way MJG, you said about Lou hating his past. You know I love his solo work as well as you do. But I don't think he really has ever gotten over the fact that his real claim on history was being part of a group. Man, I think that just burns him...

Django. Lot's of good points in there. And I agree the last statement ? it always seemed to be the most likely truth behind it all. I don't think he has ever had the critical acclaim he wanted for his solo work.

Another point. I asked Richie Unterberger why he hadn't approached Conrad for his book. He told me that he tried but that Conrad would not be interviewed for the book. I hadn't heard that story about Cale asking for the tapes back, though.

[django70]

I always thought that they should have just put the two albums together and released it as a "Rock And Roll Animal - Uncut" double disc.

Well, since we are throwing some rumors around, why not another? When RNRA was getting the remaster treatment, rumor has it Lou nixed the idea of a double-disc reissue.

I do remember reading in the now defunct Ice Magazine around the time Lou was doing his Berlin shows, that they were going to re-issue that album with all the connecting musical interludes/extended pieces that got trimmed off the first release. It would only have been 5 minutes at tops, but still! New Sensations was also slated to be re-issued with a newer mix that restored all the R. Quine guitar that was mixed off the released album, when Quine fell out of favor with Lou. I do have a soft spot for that album and it would have been nice to hear it with a less 80's post-production - More Guitar slant to the mix.

I do love Lou, but the guy would love to have you think that every new release of his is as good as everything he has ever done.