Crazy priced new pressing of VU&N by Supersense

[simonm]

> a copy
yes, noted in one of my posts above.

I considered trying to sell a few things to get this, but then I sat down and listened to my first press mono - I would love to hear the acetate but I think what I have it's close enough for me!

[MartinVU]

If I understand correctly the terms acetate and lathe cut are mixed up in part of this thread.

Acetates are the ones that deteriorate quickly and get worn by being played. They were used as reference discs, and were the sources for the earliest available versions of the VU/1969 stuff. The term is also used for lacquers (which can are used to press records).

Lathe cuts do not deteriorate in the same manner, and there's two different types - one of them is as good or better sound quality than pressed records. Presumably this is this type.

A cheaper option if you just want an analog modern hi-fi version cut from tape (master or copy) is the recent UMe vinylphyle edition. It's a normally pressed record, done by a different mastering engineer (and maybe from the actual master?), but otherwise similar on paper. I'm tempted to order it as it gets really great reviews online (but some of those reviewers seem more interested in hifi than the VU)

[simonm]

Hi Martin

After reading all the reviews I ordered a Vinylphyle pressing, with VAT and shipping to the UK it's about £51, which is ok (not much more than Mo Light/Mo Heat ) - I can cover that by selling one or two other things*, thanks for the tip. It ships on 1st January and It will probably replace my stereo first press in airbrushed sleeve.

*if anyone is interested, first up on ebay is the 2008 Velvet Records single LP Gymnasium - don't need it, outclassed by the VUAS double LP

[iaredatsun]

If I understand correctly the terms acetate and lathe cut are mixed up in part of this thread.

Acetates are the ones that deteriorate quickly and get worn by being played. They were used as reference discs, and were the sources for the earliest available versions of the VU/1969 stuff. The term is also used for lacquers (which can are used to press records).

Lathe cuts do not deteriorate in the same manner, and there's two different types - one of them is as good or better sound quality than pressed records. Presumably this is this type.

A cheaper option if you just want an analog modern hi-fi version cut from tape (master or copy) is the recent UMe vinylphyle edition. It's a normally pressed record, done by a different mastering engineer (and maybe from the actual master?), but otherwise similar on paper. I'm tempted to order it as it gets really great reviews online (but some of those reviewers seem more interested in hifi than the VU)

Yes I got the terms mixed up . I thought acetate was the plastic material that the long-lasting lathe-cuts were made on. Acetate actually the thin lacquer coating (a cellulose) on those aluminium plates used to manufacture the metal plates for manufacture. Hence acetates and lacquers being interchangeable terms.

But what I was saying was that these Supersense disks are in all likelihood lathe cuts - not lacquers (acetates). To correct myself, they are cut on a polymer disc - polycarbonate – that is long lasting but has a reduced frequency response to actual lacquers. Their video says 'lacquers' but I think that is most likely a mistake?

[MartinVU]

Hi Simon. Let's hope it lives up to all the positive reviews. For some reason I'm often sceptical about these "audiophile" releases, but after reading the reviews I did order one a while ago. Hopefully I will get it this week.

Curious to know how it compares to your original (My only original is a mono, which is easily my favorite version but obviously not that meaningful to compare it with)

Hi Martin

After reading all the reviews I ordered a Vinylphyle pressing, with VAT and shipping to the UK it's about £51, which is ok (not much more than Mo Light/Mo Heat ) - I can cover that by selling one or two other things*, thanks for the tip. It ships on 1st January and It will probably replace my stereo first press in airbrushed sleeve.

*if anyone is interested, first up on ebay is the 2008 Velvet Records single LP Gymnasium - don't need it, outclassed by the VUAS double LP

[MartinVU]

Maybe they avoid the term "lathe cut" because it has a bad reputation, but I'm slightly confused about what (if any) is the actually difference between a lacquer and a lathe cut except for the quality being higher in the former (maybe just the material it's being cut on?). The word on the street (internet) seems to be that while most lathe cuts are inferior to pressed records, some are actually as good or better. Both are cut from the master tape using a blank disk and a needle that cuts the actual grooves. A lacquer made for producing records must obviously be of very high quality, as it is from this that the metal stampers that are used in pressing the records are made, and a pressed record can not be of better quality than something earlier in the chain.

The lacquers are usually destroyed in the process of being transfered to the stampers, but Supersense claims that they by some new technique to produce high quality lacquers as an end-product ("For the first time in history, the directly cut, original lacquer coated metal disc which usually is destroyed in the process of electroplating the pressing stamper, is available for end customers. This is NOT a pressing! Please be prepared for the most authentic and warm listening experience ever.").

(I have to say that everytime I read about the record producing process I think I understand it, but 5 minutes later I've already forgotton most of it so I'm sure someone else can explain this a lot better)

iaredatsun wrote:
[/quote]
Yes I got the terms mixed up . I thought acetate was the plastic material that the long-lasting lathe-cuts were made on. Acetate actually the thin lacquer coating (a cellulose) on those aluminium plates used to manufacture the metal plates for manufacture. Hence acetates and lacquers being interchangeable terms.

But what I was saying was that these Supersense disks are in all likelihood lathe cuts - not lacquers (acetates). To correct myself, they are cut on a polymer disc - polycarbonate – that is long lasting but has a reduced frequency response to actual lacquers. Their video says 'lacquers' but I think that is most likely a mistake?
[/quote]

[iaredatsun]

"For the first time in history, the directly cut, original lacquer coated metal disc which usually is destroyed in the process of electroplating the pressing stamper, is available for end customers. This is NOT a pressing! Please be prepared for the most authentic and warm listening experience ever.").

Thanks, Martin. I missed that note about 'original lacquer coated metal disc'. I'm never going to buy something like this, but I'm fascinated to know what their 'new technique' is. One that makes a nitrocellulose lacquer long-lasting?

[simonm]

Hi Simon. Let's hope it lives up to all the positive reviews. For some reason I'm often sceptical about these "audiophile" releases, but after reading the reviews I did order one a while ago. Hopefully I will get it this week.

Curious to know how it compares to your original (My only original is a mono, which is easily my favorite version but obviously not that meaningful to compare it with)

Yeah, this is my first and last audiophile record, but it's the first time I've bought it new on vinyl. Not expecting it until next week.

[simonm]

Not much to say except it does soon very good! My 1967 stereo sounded (note past tense ) very dull in comparison and was on ebay in less than 24 hrs. The mono mix is still much better but it's nice to have a new auditory perspective on this record that I know so well.

One thing was odd though - the cover. For some reason UMG decided to mess with it, and i can't think why. The banana is smaller, the colour is wrong, and worst of all, they moved the Warhol stamp! No one else has mentioned/noticed this, but I am sharing my indignation with you lot. I mean, they got it right for the 45th Super Deluxe set, why mess with it now?



top - new vinylphyle on left, orig mono on right
bottom - 45th anniversary CD set on left, orig stereo on right