VU Masters?

[Haight Trashbury]

...their contract with Verve states that they sold the tapes for twelve Scepter-recorded songs to the label, even though the Banana Album only included ten.
/quote]
If this is the sole basis of your assumption that there were two more tracks is based on that contract, your argument is weak. The contract was with MGM, not Verve, signed in May 1966, long before the LP was finished, and the contract actually specifies 'a minimum of 6 45 rpm records or equivalent'.
You may say, well then, there must have been 12 tracks cuz the contract required that, but where is the documentation? Have these tracks ever been mentioned? There have been numerous opportunities to put these tracks out, and as Mark pointed out new mixes were produced from the multi-track tapes for the 45th anniv boxes of both VU&N and WL/WH. There is no reason why UMG would give mult-track tapes away, to Cale or anyone else. They are valuable assets of an international media conglomerate ffs.

Actually, there are lots of reasons for labels to get rid of multitracks. They’re cumbersome, delicate, and cost a fortune to store. The only reason labels even keep them is because they have no other choice. Back the 4-track days, when pop music was still considered a disposable genre, labels would simply throw them away after one or two pressings. That’s the reason why we have so little from artists like Syd Barrett (almost the entirety of Syd’s creative output was never released on a permanent medium, and was thus destroyed by his label on the grounds that it was culturally and commercially worthless). Furthermore, individual artists very often are far better at dealing with masters than record companies simply because they have more time for it. They don’t have to stay up 24/7 managing multibillion-dollar business conglomerates, and can thus devote everything they have to preserving the art. Since Cale is a strongly-established artist with a highly respectable estate, he could’ve very easily gotten the VU masters if he wanted to. Either way, I doubt that the Velvets’ MGM multitracks we’re lost in the Verve fire, since the band’s catalogue was acquired by UMG decades before that happened. I also wouldn’t be surprised if the band passed up on the opportunity to release this stuff, since Lou didn’t care (both the March ‘65 rehearsals and the Matrix tapes weren’t released until people dig through his archives after his death), and there’s a story that John is too afraid to take most of his stuff out of the archives. Whatever the case, the Velvets apparently survived the UMG fire, so the reels are probably safe either way.

[pineappleaftermath]

I thought the Matrix Tapes came out after the venue agreed to it or something like that, I don't think it was in Lou's archives or had anything directly to do with him? I can't tell from Lou's archives if any of the recordings are master tapes (haven't gone in person, just looked at the online listings) or copies or demos or what. And from what I've read, Cale has tapes of live shows and some early rehearsals - not sure about master tapes/multitracks from studio recordings. It would be great if he had them but I don't really see why he would...maybe because I can't see him getting them while Lou was still alive. Plus would he have cared about the third album onwards or Loaded (which was on Atlantic anyway) or just his era? Another option is maybe the tapes were moved somewhere else if they were used for the various box sets/re-issues/anniversary editions that have come out. Weren't photos of them used for the booklet in Peel Slowly & See or something?

[bradski]

there’s a story that John is too afraid to take most of his stuff out of the archives.

what's he afraid of?

[iaredatsun]

there’s a story that John is too afraid to take most of his stuff out of the archives.

what's he afraid of?

From I remember him saying, it was just that he'd had enough of the whole VU archive re-issue subject, like he doesn't think its worth dredging up more stuff.

[zaval80]

It goes on 'A minimum of six 45 rpm record sides or their equivalent shall be recorded during the term hereof...'

Yes that's the standard wording of a recording contract from back then - means the band has to provide 6 x 2 finished masters for tracks, suitable for commercial release - not necessarily to be released as 45s, though; this wording in the "their equivalent part" meant also the album tracks - it's just, the albums became a priority over singles only in the '60s, and the wording originates from much earlier era. So in the case of a band who'd supply the label with a "Phil Spector B-side"-type joke track as a finished master, the label would just refuse to count it to the fulfillment of the contract, and the band would have to start another recording.

Obviously this wording does not mean any alternate takes or mixes - just finished masters of standalone tracks. It would be the label's prerogative to agree to consider an alternate version as a separate master satisfying the requirements of the contract, but a band had to provide no less than the exact number of different songs.

Lastly, there was nothing preventing VU from supplying MGM with the pre-contract recordings, if there was no clause in the contract that the recordings were to be recorded in MGM or MGM-approved studios. It would have been enough for the Velvets and their management to reach an agreement with the studio where the recordings were made (in the case if the master tape was held by the studio) or with the producer (in the case the tape remained with him).

I've noticed also there is an idea which seems to have a certain popularity, that John Cale somehow would receive VU masters from a record company. Surely not from Universal! the option of masters' return to the artist can only be executed if there was a wording to this effect in the original contract. Or, if the artist somehow succeeded in asking the company to revert the masters back - but this usually works if the artist was hugely popular and relented to sign a new contract with a label, or (sometimes) if the label made a major goof of some kind and gave back the masters in compensation to avoid the court case which looked like a losing case for them. There is absolutely no need for Universal to give back any VU masters to Cale. (Now if he received some tape from an individual, that's another matter - but very often, people can possess tapes and masters, but cannot do anything with them. It's the case of physical tape belonging to a person, and the copyright belonging to somebody else.) And don't forget that Cale was only part of the group. I have no idea who's the entity on that MGM contract - is it VU or a company acting on their behalf - but in any case, John was only one of the members.

[simonm]

The 1966 contract is addressed to 'the personnel comprising the group known as "The Velvet Underground & Nico"', not to a company, though didn't they form a company of some kind to negotiate with UMG in the '90s? I recall reading somewhere that Martha Morrison took Sterling's place in the partnership after his death.
A 'taster' of short clips of some of the Matrix soundboard tapes was circulating many years before Lou's death, they were discussed at length on this board.

[Haight Trashbury]

what's he afraid of?

From I remember him saying, it was just that he'd had enough of the whole VU archive re-issue subject, like he doesn't think its worth dredging up more stuff.

Yes, he did say that. I also feel that he’s probably afraid of the tapes getting damaged. They’re almost at the rnd of their shelf lives, so they’re certainly very fragile.

[lurid]

Surely if he was frightened of them getting damaged the best thing to do would be to hand them on to a reissue label so thay could be baked/digitized for posterity?

[iaredatsun]

Yes, he did say that. I also feel that he’s probably afraid of the tapes getting damaged. They’re almost at the rnd of their shelf lives, so they’re certainly very fragile.

There's only one thing to do with fragile tapes and that's get them sorted out, baked (if needed*) and digitised. They can only get worse, so the quicker the better. I just think he can't face it.

[Haight Trashbury]

Yes, he did say that. I also feel that he’s probably afraid of the tapes getting damaged. They’re almost at the rnd of their shelf lives, so they’re certainly very fragile.

There's only one thing to do with fragile tapes and that's get them sorted out, baked (if needed*) and digitised. They can only get worse, so the quicker the better. I just think he can't face it.

I agree 100%. A lot of the people managing these old tapes no absolute NOTHING about preserving them. It’s like they assume that so long as they’re on a physical medium, they’ll last forever. The same is true with Jamie Klimek. He won’t share his tapes with anybody, and refuses to transfer them off of the 50+ year-old cassette masters in any way. He clearly doesn’t know that his collection is on its last legs. Then again, you can’t really blame him. Most people simply don’t understand the basics of audio preservation, and the only ones to blame are us. We simply never bothered to teach them...