Loaded 45th Anniversary box reactions thread

[stooge]

In fact, I got in touch with Bob Kachnycz a few years ago and here what he answered me about those edits:


"Waiting For The Man" is not really edited, it's faded at the end. I have the reel-to-reel tapes, but I do not have a reel-to-reel tape recorder anymore. Polygram copied my tapes and they gave me a digital copy on CD, of the May session that is now on Youtube. I didn't get a digital copy of my December tapes. They copied the tapes in September of 1998 for the bootleg series that they had planned, the one that started with the Quine tapes. But that series was not continued, supposedly because Lou Reed didn't want any more live material released. When Polygram was thinking of releasing my tapes as one of that series, an engineer edited them to cut out the long tuning in between songs. He also cut out a section of Cool It Down because the tape was damaged, though I thought he should have left it the way it was.

When I was at Polygram's tape facility I got to look in the vaults at the original VU master tapes, which was very cool. It looked like there was some stuff that had not been released, like the "Beginning To See The Light" with John Cale that just came out on the White Light White Heat box set.


Hope this is more clearer to you

[rnranimal]

In fact, I got in touch with Bob Kachnycz a few years ago and here what he answered me about those edits:


"Waiting For The Man" is not really edited, it's faded at the end. I have the reel-to-reel tapes, but I do not have a reel-to-reel tape recorder anymore. Polygram copied my tapes and they gave me a digital copy on CD, of the May session that is now on Youtube. I didn't get a digital copy of my December tapes. They copied the tapes in September of 1998 for the bootleg series that they had planned, the one that started with the Quine tapes. But that series was not continued, supposedly because Lou Reed didn't want any more live material released. When Polygram was thinking of releasing my tapes as one of that series, an engineer edited them to cut out the long tuning in between songs. He also cut out a section of Cool It Down because the tape was damaged, though I thought he should have left it the way it was.

When I was at Polygram's tape facility I got to look in the vaults at the original VU master tapes, which was very cool. It looked like there was some stuff that had not been released, like the "Beginning To See The Light" with John Cale that just came out on the White Light White Heat box set.


Hope this is more clearer to you

Thanks for that info. I still don't understand why they'd fade Waiting? I also wish these engineers wouldn't take it upon themselves to edit these recordings. They are bootlegs, nobody is going to complain because there's tuning and pauses between songs.

[stooge]

I really think that they edited it because when the last verse is about to begin, the band really slow down the whole tempo (which is already slow) so that Lou is almost whispering with Sterl's guitar gently crying in the backgound & Doug's response to Lou- you really need to listen carefully for the end end of the song- so I think the guy behind his brand new computer thought the tune was finished just before that last part.

Which sums up the whole thing to me: no interest at all; They didn't even listen carefully

Ps: in a previous post, I wrote that "wftm" clocks at 9'', in fact it's 7''40'. sorry

[calaminehello]

i still think my 1987 warners cd is the best.

and fully loaded.

this box set was POOP.

mono version was pointless. second fret and max's was pointless. demos was pointless.

pretty much the whole thing was pointless.

sure glad i didn't buy it!

[rnranimal]

Just a heads up for anyone who bought the HD download. I'd ask for a refund. "Sweet Jane" and "Rock and Roll" are upsampled from CD resolution. Guess they didn't feel like re-creating their 1995 edits, so they just upsampled them.

[leamanc]

In defense of the 45th anniversary box sets:

Yes, they could have done so much more, but what we got was not bad. They have to hold something back for the 50th anniversary sets.

The way I look at it, what we did get were usually small pleasures, some a bit more exciting, but I was happy to have what we did get.

The Banana Album set gave us some nice alternate/rehearsal takes, like "There She Goes Again" sung by Nico. It finally gave official release to "Miss Joanie Lee," and this is the best-sounding version (to my ears, anyway) of the absolutely essential Columbus show.

I think WL/WH was actually the worst of the four. It's only three discs, when there was the chance to include things like Sweet Sister Ray and other bootlegs from '67 and '68. But it did unearth the embryonic "Beginning to See the Light" with Cale on fuzz bass, and a full Gymnasium set. "I'm Not a Young Man Anymore" got an official release. Some nice stuff, but they did seem lazy this time around.

The 3rd album gave us all those Matrix tracks, where before we had to live with inferior versions on 1969 Live and the Quine Tapes. Plus, there were several Matrix tracks that had only been teased on the bootleg "sampler" that was going around. The furious back-and-forth guitar strumming on "There She Goes Again" was GREAT! And it was nice to have a mono mix that was not ripped from the 2012 vinyl box set.

The 5.1 mix of Loaded was worth the price of admission for me. I'd also like to note that this mix is NOT on Spotify, so if that's the only way you've heard this box set, you're missing out here. To me, this is now the definitive version of Loaded, and you can't hear it on Spotify. The downsampled-to-stereo version is on iTunes/Apple Music, but not Spotify for some reason (I seem to recall the whole of the 3rd album box was not on Spotify either). I really like the new Max's mix. It is a damn shame that the pathetic Second Fret tape made it over the Freeman tapes, but that does not erase what I do like about the rest of the set.

I've got to think that we're really scraping the bottom of the barrel here. We're talking about a band that recorded from 1966 to 1970. On some level, it's amazing that any "new" stuff comes out at all. The only beef I can really make is that there are other bootlegs they should have been included, and improved like the Columbus set was (although not everyone seems to agree that show actually was improved over previously available versions).

[rnranimal]

In defense of the 45th anniversary box sets:

Yes, they could have done so much more, but what we got was not bad. They have to hold something back for the 50th anniversary sets.

The way I look at it, what we did get were usually small pleasures, some a bit more exciting, but I was happy to have what we did get.

The Banana Album set gave us some nice alternate/rehearsal takes, like "There She Goes Again" sung by Nico. It finally gave official release to "Miss Joanie Lee," and this is the best-sounding version (to my ears, anyway) of the absolutely essential Columbus show.

The Nico "There She Goes Again" was edited down and the full version in comparable quality is found on bootleg along with all the tracks they left off the 45th set. The Columbus gig was sourced from the "If It's Too Loud?" bootleg and sounds no better. They made minimal, if any, change to the sound.

I think WL/WH was actually the worst of the four. It's only three discs, when there was the chance to include things like Sweet Sister Ray and other bootlegs from '67 and '68. But it did unearth the embryonic "Beginning to See the Light" with Cale on fuzz bass, and a full Gymnasium set. "I'm Not a Young Man Anymore" got an official release. Some nice stuff, but they did seem lazy this time around.

The 3rd album gave us all those Matrix tracks, where before we had to live with inferior versions on 1969 Live and the Quine Tapes. Plus, there were several Matrix tracks that had only been teased on the bootleg "sampler" that was going around. The furious back-and-forth guitar strumming on "There She Goes Again" was GREAT! And it was nice to have a mono mix that was not ripped from the 2012 vinyl box set.

The Matrix discs have now been made obsolete by the full set being released. There is no mono "mix". It's the stereo mix collapsed to mono. Anyone can do it to any stereo album. There's also something very suspicious about this mono version and the claim it's vintage. "Candy Says" turns to stereo at the end and there's never been any record of the mono promo LP mentioned in the set for which this was said to be created it. It doesn't matter to me whether it's vintage or not, because a stereo mix folded to mono is always nonsense to me.

The 5.1 mix of Loaded was worth the price of admission for me. I'd also like to note that this mix is NOT on Spotify, so if that's the only way you've heard this box set, you're missing out here. To me, this is now the definitive version of Loaded, and you can't hear it on Spotify. The downsampled-to-stereo version is on iTunes/Apple Music, but not Spotify for some reason (I seem to recall the whole of the 3rd album box was not on Spotify either). I really like the new Max's mix. It is a damn shame that the pathetic Second Fret tape made it over the Freeman tapes, but that does not erase what I do like about the rest of the set.

Max's is the same basic sound as before, just missing songs. Even still running at the wrong speed. I'd buy the DVD on it's own.

I've got to think that we're really scraping the bottom of the barrel here. We're talking about a band that recorded from 1966 to 1970. On some level, it's amazing that any "new" stuff comes out at all. The only beef I can really make is that there are other bootlegs they should have been included, and improved like the Columbus set was (although not everyone seems to agree that show actually was improved over previously available versions).

It's not about the content that isn't available. I can't fault them for not including what they can't. My complaints involve the poor decisions, oversights, omissions and corner cutting. I imagine much of that was profit driven by the labels, but it makes no difference to me who is at fault. The sets are not what they should've been.

So that I'm not always being negative, here's what I liked about the sets:

The new stereo and mono remasters of the VU & Nico are imo the very best sounding digital copies. Also for the Chelsea Girl album.

It was great they found a tape source for some of the Scepter sessions. I also like the alternate Mirror and Sunday Morning running at the correct speed.

It's great to finally have the Cale "Beginning to See the Light" and alternate mix of "I Heard Her Call My Name". It's also nice to have the dedicated WL/WH mono mixed tracks on CD.

I like the alternate closet mix track and the 1969 sessions disc. It's a revelation over VU/Another View.

Cool to hear a vintage mix of "Sweet Jane" with the bridge fully intact. I have a feeling I'd enjoy the DVD 5.1 mix, but haven't heard it and won't be unless a friend or the local library buys it.

[dial4]

They didn't get hands on enough NEW material to issue 21 cd's at such prices IMHO.
Buy the Matrix tapes on its own is a rip-off.
Also didn't like the packaging, but ok there were some good things on each reissue.
Considering the Freeman tape is NOT on Loaded, it's very sad for the many fans, especially after Lou passed away, it could have been a sort of thank you for all those good times.
I'm sure other live-session-movie tapes, sbd or audience exist, perhaps if we live one hundred years they'll see the light of day.
Perhaps.

[rnranimal]

They didn't get hands on enough NEW material to issue 21 cd's at such prices IMHO.
Buy the Matrix tapes on its own is a rip-off.
Also didn't like the packaging, but ok there were some good things on each reissue.
Considering the Freeman tape is NOT on Loaded, it's very sad for the many fans, especially after Lou passed away, it could have been a sort of thank you for all those good times.
I'm sure other live-session-movie tapes, sbd or audience exist, perhaps if we live one hundred years they'll see the light of day.
Perhaps.

You're right, bloating these to 6 discs each with the material they had was ridiculous (and they still left off stuff they have access to). But on the other hand, they kept WL/WH to half as many discs and charged just as much.

How I wish labels would listen to the fans. We're the ones they want to buy this stuff, so I'd think it makes sense to try and meet our wants. It's fine with me, keep putting out lazy releases and I'll keep being lazy and copying the tracks I want. If they'd put out a set and make most of it worthwhile, by either being new material or at least upgraded sources, I'd have no problem buying it. I plan to buy the Matrix set. These 45th sets are really weak when you break them down for what they actually contain.

[leamanc]

rnranimal, I can't really argue any of your points, if that's the way you want to look at it. But as a response to a few things:

The Columbus show sounds better to me than If It's Too Loud For You..., although I only have the latter as a FLAC rip. A FLAC rip should sound as good as the CD, but the whole show sounds "muddier" to me there, in comparison to the 45th VU&Nico set. If they are one and the same, then what is wrong with making the best version available to the masses? As is the case with many bootlegs, even big fans of the band don't have them all. I personally never had any of the material from the Warhol museum CD. I had never heard "Miss Joanie Lee" at all before this set came out, and I have quite a few VU bootlegs, both downloaded and physical copies.

Yes, it is sketchy that the 3rd album mono is presented as being contemporary to the album's original release. As I mentioned, the only other mono source was the 2012 Sundazed vinyl box set. I vinyl-ripped it at the time, as did quite a few others, and a lot of us enjoyed it. Regardless of its origins, it's nice to have. And I have to think that by 1968/early 1969, most mono issues were fold-downs. It seemed to be the trend in the music business at that time, as bands started recording with stereo in mind, instead of recording in mono and having an engineer rig up a stereo mix later on. The mono Loaded promo is most certainly a fold-down also. If a mono version of the 3rd album actually was prepared in 1969, it likely would have been done the same way.

You point out a few things you did like in the interest of not being negative all the time. So thinking along those lines, what would you have wanted to see instead? A cleaned-up "Sweet Sister Ray" tops my list. Leaving out this song seems to be THE big wasted opportunity in collecting all this Velvets material. Also, there are a few other "alternate Closet Mix" tracks that could have been included; I would have liked those tacked on to the Closet Mix disc of the set too.