rnranimal wrote:
I just checked out Peel. Songs 3-6 are definitely from acetate, but There Is No Reason is either from a different very clean acetate or a tape. I don't recall ever seeing any pre-Peel bootleg copies with that track. VUAS had 6 tracks. I'm starting to wonder if that song was even recorded at the same session as the others.
In the mid 90s I traded some tapes with a collector who had VU & related tape copies dating back to the 70s on reel. They had longer and better sounding copies of a number of things, including the only source I'd come across of the full Max's shows prior to the deluxe 2CD. They had these demos labelled as Broom Street. Since the Peel box said otherwise, I considered it an error, but now I wonder. I'd have to dig out the tape (if I still have it) to see if There Is No Reason is on it and if there's a date listed.
rnranimal. How did you work out that the PSAS versions are from the acetate? The bootlegged versions are so noisy, I'm a little surprised that they could clean them up that well.
Another question about the demos is why they would have made an acetate from them? Wouldn't that have cost money? And then why make an acetate copy of a tape that includes two versions of two songs and where one includes a false start.
rnranimal wrote:
I just checked out Peel. Songs 3-6 are definitely from acetate, but There Is No Reason is either from a different very clean acetate or a tape. I don't recall ever seeing any pre-Peel bootleg copies with that track. VUAS had 6 tracks. I'm starting to wonder if that song was even recorded at the same session as the others.
In the mid 90s I traded some tapes with a collector who had VU & related tape copies dating back to the 70s on reel. They had longer and better sounding copies of a number of things, including the only source I'd come across of the full Max's shows prior to the deluxe 2CD. They had these demos labelled as Broom Street. Since the Peel box said otherwise, I considered it an error, but now I wonder. I'd have to dig out the tape (if I still have it) to see if There Is No Reason is on it and if there's a date listed.
rnranimal. How did you work out that the PSAS versions are from the acetate? The bootlegged versions are so noisy, I'm a little surprised that they could clean them up that well.
Another question about the demos is why they would have made an acetate from them? Wouldn't that have cost money? And then why make an acetate copy of a tape that includes two versions of two songs and where one includes a false start.
I can hear the wooshing sound, from a noisy record turning, in the background of those tracks. They did a lot of cleaning up on those tracks. Just like Countess which is also from acetate. They scrubbed the clicks and crackle out, which is much easier to do on mono recordings from vinyl/acetate, but couldn't do anything about the other telltale signs (like the wooshing). Countess is really a stereo recording, but they folded it to mono on Peel. I suspect they did that to help reduce the noise. The bootlegs are from inferior lineage and mastering.
Why they would make an acetate of these demos, that I can't answer. But it was done all the time and we know this acetate exists because there's a picture of it.
iaredatsun wrote:rnranimal. How did you work out that the PSAS versions are from the acetate? The bootlegged versions are so noisy, I'm a little surprised that they could clean them up that well.
Another question about the demos is why they would have made an acetate from them? Wouldn't that have cost money? And then why make an acetate copy of a tape that includes two versions of two songs and where one includes a false start.
I can hear the wooshing sound, from a noisy record turning, in the background of those tracks. They did a lot of cleaning up on those tracks. Just like Countess which is also from acetate. They scrubbed the clicks and crackle out, which is much easier to do on mono recordings from vinyl/acetate, but couldn't do anything about the other telltale signs (like the wooshing). Countess is really a stereo recording, but they folded it to mono on Peel. I suspect they did that to help reduce the noise. The bootlegs are from inferior lineage and mastering.
Why they would make an acetate of these demos, that I can't answer. But it was done all the time and we know this acetate exists because there's a picture of it.
I'd always simply assumed that the PSAS versions were from a different copy of the acetate that was in better condition than the one used for the bootlegs. Is the general view that there was only one copy so it must have been cleaned up? None of this explains where There Is No Reason comes from though!
rnranimal wrote:Why they would make an acetate of these demos, that I can't answer. But it was done all the time and we know this acetate exists because there's a picture of it.
Thanks for the analysis of the sound - it helps me to understand what you are listening for.
Not questioning that the acetate exists (I've seen the picture), just why they would make a demo recording and then make direct acetate(s) from it - unless maybe it was done in a studio and they could not afford to keep the tape. If they made it at Broom St. or Ludlow St. then that would mean taking the tape to a facility and paying for an acetate.
Also why do they list Mo Tucker on it, in the PSAS book? Surely not on there.
On Unterberger's book page 202 refereing to Cale' interview in NME April 1974 " ...It was sad in a way because there were still some great songs to be recorded like 'Here Comes the Waves' , ..."
Still surprises me "Foggy Notion" credited to "Morrison/Tucker/Yule/Reed" when there are written proofs that the song was performed in the Summer of 1968 with Cale.
alfredovu wrote:Still surprises me "Foggy Notion" credited to "Morrison/Tucker/Yule/Reed" when there are written proofs that the song was performed in the Summer of 1968 with Cale.
Show business has always been like that, any kind. If these people didn't live intense and rather disordered lives, if their emotions didn't ride them too hard, they wouldn't be able to catch those emotions and project them across the footlights -Chandler
nkdlunch wrote:Any idea on when this might come out?
Alfredo, Sal, anyone - can you give us a hint?
Show business has always been like that, any kind. If these people didn't live intense and rather disordered lives, if their emotions didn't ride them too hard, they wouldn't be able to catch those emotions and project them across the footlights -Chandler
Need to listen more closely, but isn't there a floor tom or some such being struck on the off-beats of A Sheltered Life? I always thought so... Would be the only place where she is audible, though.
Show business has always been like that, any kind. If these people didn't live intense and rather disordered lives, if their emotions didn't ride them too hard, they wouldn't be able to catch those emotions and project them across the footlights -Chandler
alfredovu wrote:Still surprises me "Foggy Notion" credited to "Morrison/Tucker/Yule/Reed" when there are written proofs that the song was performed in the Summer of 1968 with Cale.
Caridad Rodriguez wrote:
Need to listen more closely, but isn't there a floor tom or some such being struck on the off-beats of A Sheltered Life? I always thought so... Would be the only place where she is audible, though.
Yes. I was listening to check for myself and that is the one track that she could be on. But then it could be also anyone else, I guess.
Last edited by iaredatsun on 15 Sep 2014 00:50, edited 1 time in total.
