Gymnasium Tape

markfunnell · Post by **markfunnell** » 30 Sep 2005 12:56

What's the story with the Gymnasium tape? Why won't Cale let the whole tape be released? Surely it makes the logical follow up to the Quine tapes, especially as it's the only soundboard tape? Are there two tapes, as suggested by the two versions of 'Guess I'm Falling In Love'. Does it really feature a track called 'I'm Not A Young Man Anymore', as Clinton Heylin claims in his recent collection of VU articles? Does it feature 'Walk It and Talk It' as suggested on Oliver's site?

simonm · Post by **simonm** » 30 Sep 2005 14:29

Clinton Heylin isn't a very reliable source IMO.
I'd go with the info on Olivier's site, taken from a hand written set list.
Universal have the Gymnasium tape. There's more to it than Cale. Legal and or money issues have put the whole bootleg series on hold, see recent (and older) posts by Sal Mercuri....

dsulpy · Post by **dsulpy** » 30 Sep 2005 15:13

"Are there two tapes, as suggested by the two versions of 'Guess I'm Falling In Love'."

I believe the one on the boxed set is really from the Gymnasium tape, while the oft-bootlegged radio performance is really the audio from their appearance on Upbeat.

Mark · Post by **Mark** » 30 Sep 2005 15:22

dsulpy wrote:I believe the one on the boxed set is really from the Gymnasium tape, while the oft-bootlegged radio performance is really the audio from their appearance on Upbeat.

Nope, I'm pretty sure they're both from Gymnasium - see this quote from Olivier's site:

'old' recording of Guess I'm Falling In Love, broadcasted on WPIX FM by John Cale on June 3, 1979, and available on some bootlegs like And So On LP or Everything You've Ever Heard... 3LP box set. This version sounds clearly different (seems without drums) from the Peel Slowly And See box set version and has some lyrics differences (the box set version begins with "I got fever..." while the 'old' version begins with "I got MY fever..."). On the WPIX tape where Cale plays the 'old' version he clearly says that it is from a tape he stumbled across. He definitely says "Gymnasium, April 1967"

More likely the two versions come from two sets taped on the same night - or even different nights, as the Velvets had a nine-night residency at the Gymnasium throughout April '67.

dsulpy · Post by **dsulpy** » 30 Sep 2005 16:15

I'm aware of that, Mark, but I think Cale mixed up the tapes. In addition to the unlikelihood of there being two Gymnasium tapes - listen to the bootlegged version, and compare it to the real Gymnasium tape. The boot SOUNDS like a TV recording, not a live performance.

markfunnell · Post by **markfunnell** » 30 Sep 2005 16:47

Where's the set list on Olivier's site?

simonm · Post by **simonm** » 30 Sep 2005 18:03

I made a mistake, the setlist on O's site is for a gig in MAY '67, but it's a good indication of what they were playing live around then, Here it is, from http://members.aol.com/olandem2/perf67.html

Show 1:
Run Run -- 10
Venus -- 5
White Heat -- 5
Venus -- 10
I heard etc. -- 5
Walk & talk
Searchin -- 15

Show 2:
Run Run -- 10
Venus -- 5
Waiting for the Man -- 5
Black Angel -- 5
Here She Comes Now (crossed out) -- 5
Heroin -- 10
Searchin' -- 20
______________
|Walk & talk |
|-------------
| |XXX| | I Heard Heard
|-------------
| White Heat |
--------------

BTW I think dsulpy could be right on Guess I'm Fallin' In Love - we know they played the song on Upbeat and Tony Conrad taped it, and it sounds nothing like the other version as well as having different lyrics.

Kill Mick · Post by **Kill Mick** » 30 Sep 2005 19:03

This may be just coincidence, but another thing that would support dsulpy's theory about Upbeat would be the apparent absence of drums on the 'bootleg' version. The Sterling's Acetate demo was apparently recorded in early 67, around the same time as the Upbeat performance (Jan 67) and that doesn't feature drums either. Maybe Moe was ill or something at that time, and missed both the demo session and Upbeat?

iaredatsun · Post by **iaredatsun** » 01 Oct 2005 23:58

Kill Mick wrote:The Sterling's Acetate demo was apparently recorded in early 67, around the same time as the Upbeat performance (Jan 67) and that doesn't feature drums either. Maybe Moe was ill or something at that time, and missed both the demo session and Upbeat?

But Conrad recorded upbeat in May 67 (according to olandem's quote on his site) and it also doesn't state which song he recorded. The band also played Run,run run on one appearance on that show same year (ibid).