The Velvet Forum

Thought I'd start a separate thread for this in order to separate the discussion of the material from the various chat about torrents, trades etc. Here are my thoughts on the first CD containing alternate versions of tracks from the first album - others are welcome.

In general
This is a pretty extraordinary find - after 40 years, the first release to give any real background to the making of one of the most mysterious, legendary albums of all time. The album itself is so familiar that hearing these songs in alternate form somehow breathes new life into them.

Sound quality is very good - very heavy crackles (some of which may be removable, some of which may not) don't obscure the music itself.

Note that below I'm comparing the tracks to the stereo album version - I don't have a mono edition to hand. It may be that some of these mixes are the same as on the mono album.


Heroin - different take
"I know just..." line. More 'live' sounding, less produced (if that's possible). Lou's vocal sounds more matter-of-fact, less theatrical. Guitars less trebly. Builds up to the louder bits in a more powerful way. Viola more jarring.

Venus In Furs - different take
Again, rawer, more naturalistic production, no reverb. Lou's guitar juts out quite a bit more at times. More of a 'beat poet' style delivery in the vocals, especially "Taste the whip! Now bleeeeeeeeed for me...."

Femme Fatale - different mix
Basically the same as the LP version, but with an extra falsetto backing vocal on the chorus that's just barely audible on the final release. Seems to emphasise the catty, camp angle of the lyrics rather nicely.

Run Run Run - different mix (maybe same as mono LP?)
Denser, more balanced mix, with louder rhythm guitar which drives the whole thing along a bit more than the released version. John's great bass runs at the start of the guitar solo are also way more audible

Waiting For The Man - different take
The most significantly different of the alt takes. Raw as hell, like The Modern Lovers or something. One guitar, piano, bass, tambourine. No sign of Sterling's familiar lead part. As with Venus and Heroin, more of a deadpan, matter of fact vocal. Nice ostrich guitar solo.

European Son - unedited version
This is nine minutes long, as opposed to the the 7.40 on the album. Yet it's the same take. What gives? Well, there's a whole 1 minute 20secs of jamming after the chair-scraping noise that was edited out of the final version! It's nothing too mind-blowing, more of the same really (perhaps with more of a rattly Bo Diddley feel than the chaos that comes later), but intereesting all the same.

Black Angel's Death Song
Pretty much the same as the album version as far as I can tell.

All Tomorrow's Parties - different mix?
Very similar to the released version, except the bass drum seems to fade in and out occasionally. Also, single-tracked vocal (same as the circulating 'alternate' version that's on the MFSL CD?)

I'll Be Your Mirror - different mix
Definitely a different mix - no reverb, meaning that there's more detail to be heard on the guitars. Overall it's got much more feel of a live band playing together. Much quieter "reflect what you are" backing vocals vocals at the end too

ATP / I'll Be Your Mirror / Sunday Morning / Femme Fatale - single versions
These sound MUCH cleaner than the acetate stuff, so I'm guessing they come from the official Deluxe edition. Consequentially not as interesting as the acetate stuff, although there are some nice bits like the "Take 6" announcement (and the otherwise unavailable note!) at the start of Sunday Morning and the funny little chord at the end of Mirror.

Mark wrote: I'll Be Your Mirror - different mix
Definitely a different mix - no reverb, meaning that there's more detail to be heard on the guitars. Overall it's got much more feel of a live band playing together. Much quieter "reflect what you are" backing vocals vocals at the end too

to me it sounds as it's an entirely different vocal track, isn't it?
otherwise your review is spot on 8)
Doc

Possibly - I can't decide to be honest. It does sound different, but that may be because of the different mix.

Mark wrote:Possibly - I can't decide to be honest. It does sound different, but that may be because of the different mix.

or maybe because of the different lyrics?
Nico ends second verse with 'to show that you're home' instead of 'so you won't be afraid'.
The early vocals sound less' French pop' (so to speak) styled than the final version.
Doc

LFSDoc wrote:Nico ends second verse with 'to show that you're home' instead of 'so you won't be afraid'.

Conceded!

Mark wrote:European Son - unedited version
This is nine minutes long, as opposed to the the 7.40 on the album. Yet it's the same take. What gives? Well, there's a whole 1 minute 20secs of jamming after the chair-scraping noise that was edited out of the final version! It's nothing too mind-blowing, more of the same really (perhaps with more of a rattly Bo Diddley feel than the chaos that comes later), but interesting all the same.

That must be Lou on guitar, right? More of his jittery RunRunRun/AllTomorrowsParties soloing. Explains the "squawk" of guitar noise just after the "chairs" and before the instrumental section which intrigued me on the Deluxe mono mix -- it's the first bit of the solo, and they didn't manage to edit out. "They" being the band, presumably -- Wilson and his editing team cut the squawk from the stereo mix alright.

Well, I've now managed to have a listen to all three CDs so here's a brief review:

CD1 - "The Acetate"

This really is something! Nearly every track has at least something different from the final released version we all know and love:

Femme Fatale - Is that Moe singing backing vocals? Wow! She must now be pissed that her first vocal appearance never got out!

VIF - Slow and more menacing. Lou's vocal is a bit less snarly but John's viola more than makes up for that. Shame that whomever copied the track to digital wasn't paying attention when it started to jump.

Heroin - fantastic. Sounds more manic at the end with Moe staying with them rather than dropping out.

Waiting - This is the best of these new tracks. Seems to be less piano and more guitars. Nice version.

ES - Love the extra minute noodling after the crash. The mix also de-muddifies the noise and makes it seem less abstract than its sounds on the final version. Perhaps this was Sterl was referring to when he contradicted someone who said this by saying 'It's quite conventional sounding, really'.

The 'bonus' tracks included are a bit pointless as these are the single versions that appear on the 'Deluxe' version of the album.


CD2 - 'White Light/White Heat' mono mix +

To be honest, I couldn't make out any differences between this and the stereo mix (aside from the obvious - The Gift). There might be a clearer tighter mix on Lady Godiva's Operation which makes the chatter and hissing easier to listen to but I'm not certain. I do like the idea of blasting out SR in mono form for a change! The single mixes on this CD are also a bit inessential as well aside from slight edits here & there, nothing mind blowing.

However, two tracks from the 3rd LP acetate are interesting. It's great to finally have the long 'harmonic' mix of BTSTL on CD at last and in good quality too (compare it with the ultra-hissy version on the 'Off The Record' boot from about 10 years ago). Another highlight of the whole set for me is a previously undocumented alternate mix of 'I'm Set Free'. It's got much more echo and Moe's drums have been mixed to sound a little like the hard timpanis on The Beach Boys 'I'm Waiting For The Day'. It all works rather well. Sal if you can dig these up for the deluxe edition of the 3rd LP...*hint hint*

CD3 - 'Loaded' mono mix

Not bad this, if very samey to the stereo mix of the original LP. There certainly is more bass on it, though. 'Rock & Roll' does sound like it has been given a different mix though - the rhythm guitar which drives this song seems more muted than normal as to be almost non-existent. Listen to when it kicks in at the 'It was alright' bit and compare it with the stereo version. Not quite as much of an impact on this mix. Sadly whomever compiled the torrent tagged the intro of 'New Age' onto the end of 'Cool It Down'. Idiot. The single mix of 'Who Loves The Sun' may be a bit different to the mix on the LP but I can't put my finger as to how.

Overall an excellent little set for die-hards like me. CD1 will defintely appeal to all alt music fans in love with the debut, the rest may not but I for one am glad to have it all. Thanks to everyone who made it possible. Esp IAREDASUN!

jimjim wrote:Femme Fatale - Is that Moe singing backing vocals? Wow! She must now be pissed that her first vocal appearance never got out!

It sounds more like a falsetto male voice to me (Cale?). Probably a bit too in-tune to be Moe!

Sadly whomever compiled the torrent tagged the intro of 'New Age' onto the end of 'Cool It Down'. Idiot.

That's gratitude for you!

Mark wrote:

Sadly whomever compiled the torrent tagged the intro of 'New Age' onto the end of 'Cool It Down'. Idiot.

That's gratitude for you!

Sorry, I wasn't trying to sound ungrateful for it being upped in the 1st place. It's just that putting the intro back to where it should be is a pain in the arse to do with my audio software.

The guitar in 'Rock and Roll' sounds the same way on the stereo mix if you fold it to mono. When comparing stereo & mono mixes, it's best to fold the stereo to mono. Some things come through more/less when this is done and can be what causes the noted differences in "mono mixes". When doing this, to me the Loaded mono sounds just like the stereo mix. Same goes for the 3rd LP mono single, these are just the closet mixes. Maybe different mastering, but the same mix. I have yet to do a close compare on WL/WH or Loaded single.