The Velvet Forum

A friend gave me a box containing three CDs- VU and Nico, VU and Loaded. I had never heard of Velvet Underground before but one listen to these records, especially the first one, and I was blown away. So now I must ask some questions and sorry if they are basic but I know little about this group, except that I like their sound.
-I know Lou Reed because he is very famous; was the VU his band in the sense that the Beach Boys were Brian Wilson's band? (I mean to ask was he the creative genius of this group?)
-Who is the leading guitarist? Lou or Sterling Morrison?
-Did Mo Tucker play drums on Loaded because I have heard two different stories?
-Was John Cale fired or did he leave on his own accord?
-And finally, would you recommend any of John Cale's solo material? I am familiar with Lou's (some I like, some I do not) but I don't know what sort of music Cale makes.
Thank you for your time!
Santiago

Go to http://www.allmusic.com and look up the Velvet Underground's entry.

Anonymous wrote:-I know Lou Reed because he is very famous; was the VU his band in the sense that the Beach Boys were Brian Wilson's band? (I mean to ask was he the creative genius of this group?)

Kind of... he was certainly responsible for most of the songwriting. However, I think most people would consider that the VU benefited greatly from the contributions of the rest of the band - in particular John Cale's musicianship and radical ideas on the first two albums, and Moe Tucker's uniquely powerful drumming throughout.

-Who is the leading guitarist? Lou or Sterling Morrison?

Both Lou and Sterling switched between lead and rhythm throughout the VU's career. You can normally tell who's playing on which songs because Lou's style is generally quite noisy and chaotic, whereas Sterling's playing was more precise and measured.

-Did Mo Tucker play drums on Loaded because I have heard two different stories?

No, she doesn't appear on Loaded - she was still in the band at the time, but didn't make the sessions because she was pregnant. The drums on the album are mostly played by Doug Yule, with a few tracks featuring various stand-in players including Adrian Barber, Bill Yule and Tommy Castanaro.

-Was John Cale fired or did he leave on his own accord?

Good question. I don't really know the full story, but I think relations between him and Lou broke down, resulting in Lou forcing him out of the band.

-And finally, would you recommend any of John Cale's solo material? I am familiar with Lou's (some I like, some I do not) but I don't know what sort of music Cale makes.

There's so much good stuff it's hard to know where to start! Personally I like most of his '70s work in particular (Vintage Violence, Helen Of Troy etc)... there are a few cheap compilations around that could give you a good introduction.

Make sure you get the album White Light/White Heat.

Mark gave good answers but I'd like to recommend some Cale solo stuff...

His solo debut Vintage Violence (1970) is good (certainly better than Lou's solo debut), but the third and fourth albums (after the weird The Academy In Peril [1972] which I never really got into) are the true stuff of genius: Paris 1919 (1973) and Fear (1974)... These two albums you need to check out, most Cale/Velvets fans will agree that these two are his best. I certainly think so. Also recommended are Helen Of Troy (1975) and Honi Soit (1981).

Hope this helps.

allmusic wrote:Go to http://www.allmusic.com and look up the Velvet Underground's entry.

Better still, go to Wikipedia and soak up the wealth of information.

Some personal Cale favorites...

1. Fear (1974) - Personally, I think the first 30 seconds of "Fear is a Man's Best Friend" is better than Lou Reed's entire solo output. "Fear" is a brooding, eclectic masterpiece.

2. Music For a New Society (1982) - Cale at his most impassioned and creative. His most personal album. Sad, depressed, and amazing.

3. Fragments of a Rainy Season (1992) - This live performance might be a better introduction to Cale's music than the various compilations out there. Reasonably priced DVD (with somewhat different track lineup) is also available.

I'm also fond of the instrumental "23 Solo Pieces For La Naissance de l'Amour," the Eno collaboration "Wrong Way Up" and "Paris 1919."

As a fellow Velvet Underground fan I would like to take this opportunity to clear up a few common misunderstandings about this great group.

Anonymous wrote:-I know Lou Reed because he is very famous; was the VU his band in the sense that the Beach Boys were Brian Wilson's band? (I mean to ask was he the creative genius of this group?)

Whilst Reed and Cale are both credited as creative forces behind the group they were only creative care-takers for the band in its early days under the nihilistic 'art' tutelage of Andy Warhol. This nominal creative leadership was only planned until more suitable replacements could be found by the management. After two 'failed' but interesting albums a young man called Yule was brought in by new manager Sesnick to work in the background and try and get the band on track to artistic and commercial success.

At this stage Cale had the insight to see the true creative potential in this unassuming new musician. He realised that he was no longer really needed and that greater things were to come for the band if he faded quietly out of the picture.

In contrast Reed, at this time, was still convinced of his own creative importance to the band. His super-nihilistic tendencies certainly didn't allow him to see what lay ahead in the shape of a subtle creative power that was greater than his. But from that time on his powers started to wane.

Anonymous wrote:-Did Mo Tucker play drums on Loaded because I have heard two different stories?

No, and whilst her contributions to the band are always highly valued in these quarters, the standard rock drumming that Yule introduced for the 4th album, Loaded, is beginning to be widely accepted as part of a great step forward for the VU into the age of super rock-dom. (You only have to listen to the cow-bell percussion on the alternative "Sweet Jane" to realise how far things had come since the beautiful but naive days of European Son.)

Loaded was an incredible breath of fresh air with a wholesome new sound and enjoyable rock songs of love, affection and happiness - freed of Reed's usual cynicism (he was increasingly under the direction of the quiet genius Yule).
Loaded wasn't perfect (it still had some of the old 'edges' and 'excess') but it was indeed a clarion-call against the artistic and experimental excesses of the earlier albums.

It was only Yule's clear-sighted enthusiasm and artistic sensibilities that enabled them to break free of the darkness of their black and grey years. And it wasn't until Reed left that Yule was finally able to realise his masterplan. He was now free to finish his transformation of the group by becoming the lead singer, song-writer and guitarist - taking them on to their creative and critical xenith with Squeeeze, their last and greatest ever studio recording. This album, free of all creative pretentions, featured a down-to-earth approach that spoke to all who worship the ordinary, the banal, the mundane in popular music and life.

I wouldn't so much draw creative genius parallels between the VU story (that of Cale/Reed and Yule) and that of the Beach Boys (Wilson and Love) but maybe rather look to the story of Genesis with Phil Collins taking the band on to the heights of its expressive powers and populism after Peter Gabrial left.

Patrick Bateman

Anonymous wrote:-Was John Cale fired or did he leave on his own accord?

Anonymous wrote:(You only have to listen to the cow-bell percussion on the alternative "Sweet Jane" to realise how far things had come since the beautiful but naive days of European Son.)

...and that's where you gave yourself away. Good to hear from you Mr Sesnick.

LOL, Patrick!