The Velvet Forum

There are two phases in the V.U.'s history that are in desperate need of further development: the 1965 pre-Maureen phase, and the 1970-1971 Yule/Morrison/Powers/Tucker line-up.

I'm not too knowledgeable in the field of bootlegs, so this may turn out to be a silly question, but does anybody know of early tapes circulating featuring McLise? Would be fascinating to know what their early improvs sounded like.

And the YMPT line-up, we know they've recorded tracks for Atlantic. Frustrating to know that they probably won't surface anytime soon (or else they would've been included on Fully Loaded).

Why oh why would have they been included on Fully Loaded? Loaded is an album written by Lou Reed, whereas on that December 1970 demo you're talking about, both tracks "she'll make you cry" and "friends" are Dougie's tunes. They are definitely post-Loaded.

And by the way, I have the greast respect for Dougie, to me he's a true Velvet and I appreciate his contribution to 2 classic LPs like the gray album and Loaded, but please Arjan won't you realize once and for all that the Velvet Underground ended in August 1970? Yule himself would be much more highly regarded now if the Velvets had called it quits when Reed went back to Long Island.

I know it isn't what this thread is about, but I don't agree the Velvets ended with Lou's departure. Two of the founder members, Sterling & Mo (ok, almost a founder in Mo's case) certainly didn't think so, and Doug had been around for a couple of years by then - nearly as long as John's involvement. Imho Arjan's right, this is an important and sadly under-documented period in the band's history.

i don't know about any early tapes but i know there is a "live in amsterdam '71" bootleg circulating.
quite a good bootleg....

Anonymous wrote:i don't know about any early tapes but i know there is a "live in amsterdam '71" bootleg circulating.
quite a good bootleg....

jep. that's right. And one member here sits on the preFM CDR...
I won't mention his name, you know who you are

I think, Paddy is right by saying that Doug lost too much credibility and gained disrespect in VU circles by maintaining the VU name after Lou left.
This might be a reason for humiliating Doug when it comes to his role in the VU.

just my 20c....

Paddy, why don't you register. Your writing looks like you might be.... aah no... forget this!

Anonymous wrote:Two of the founder members, Sterling & Mo (ok, almost a founder in Mo's case) certainly didn't think so.

Actually, read some interviews where Mo and Sterl discuss that post-Lou period. They DID think the VU was dead after Lou departed. Yule said that Sterl just stopping going to gigs!

<pimp>Check out the Mojo interview with Doug this month, he has some interesting comments on the post-Lou era.</pimp> I certainly think there's a case for the band still being The Velvet Underground (or at least a Velvet Underground) till Sterling left, and maybe even till Moe left at the end of '71.

As for recordings, no I'm not aware of any that circulate. Theoretically, I think that the 'Walter Cronkite Show / Making Of An Underground Film' CBS footage of Heroin was recorded before Moe joined, so that might feature Angus in some form?

There are certainly some non-circulating tapes from both eras. There's the original 1965 demo (rather than the rehearsal tape that ended up on PSAS), the tapes they made for Piero Heliczer's film happenings in '65, Birdid Polk's Max's tape from the week after Lou's depature, the late 1970 Atlantic tracks Arjan mentioned, possibly some more live stuff from 70/71...

"Theoretically, I think that the 'Walter Cronkite Show / Making Of An Underground Film' CBS footage of Heroin was recorded before Moe joined, so that might feature Angus in some form?"

I was under the assumption that this is not circulating - that clips were used in a documentary, but none of the original audio is around.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

I couldn't say for sure, not having copies to hand, but I thought that some of the documentaries that used the Walter Cronkite footage also used the original sound.

For what it's worth, I believe that the following programmes used clips from the Cronkite show:

?South Bank Show? Warhol special, 1987
?Dancing in the Streets? BBC TV documentary, 1996
John Cale BBC TV documentary, 1998

Can anyone who has seen these shows comment?

Has the footage been used in any other shows?