The Velvet Forum

Same, but for live albums...

Live 1993 is so boring and mechanical that I Can't Stand It (no pun intended). The only reason I keep it is cuz I am a goddamn completist! I don't even consider it a historical document. The only thing historical about it (in my eyes) is that Sterl and Moe finally got paid.

mg196 wrote:Live 1993 is so boring and mechanical that I Can't Stand It (no pun intended

I dislike the torture that Reed inflicts on songs like Venus in Furs and Some Kinda Love (not to mention the godawful Coyote), but then again it has its moments, especially when Sterling gets a look in (White Light/White Heat, I'll Be Your Mirror).

And the mix... Why Reed so far up and Sterling so far down? Rathke of course is very much aware he must please his boss, but then he of all people should understand the plight of being the rhythm guitarist next to Reed! (Or maybe that's just why he mixed down Sterling, otherwise it would show a bit too obviously that Morrison is more than a match for him ).

I like Max's energy but it would be far better with Maureen (or with Billy's hands tied behind his back ). Of the 1969 live compilations, I like 1969 itself better because it's far tighter in execution than The Quine Tapes, which I like.

arjan wrote:the godawful Coyote

I actually really like that song! What's wrong with it?

Homme Fatale wrote: I actually really like that song! What's wrong with it?

It sounds like a tossed-off Lou Reed B-side, that's why!

"No movement, no lyrics, just nothing", to quote a certain band.

Just my opinion, mind

arjan wrote: I dislike the torture that Reed inflicts on songs like Venus in Furs and Some Kinda Love (not to mention the godawful Coyote

I actually really love the way Lou rearranges the vocal melody on Venus in Furs, but I haven't to this day ever met anyone who agrees with me on this point! I mean he's allowed to re-interpret his own melodies 25 years later surely...

As for Some Kinda Love, I appreciate the vocal on that as well, its very disjointed basically because Lou has taken it on himself to play lead guitar and sing at the same time, with the result that he is always wrestling with himself to get the words in between the very aggressive guitar fills that he is playing, and this also results in him forgetting most of the lyrics...I still find it cool though! Almost like what Some Kinda Love would have been like if it were recorded in the WLWH era!

I'd disagree with Coyote being little more than a Lou Reed B-side (although I know what you mean)...after all the song arose from Lou walking into the room while Cale was messing around with a new bassline and Lou started adding some guitar to it and mumbling some lyrics and so the song was born, with the initial part actually coming from John. Also the unmistakeable delicate lead guitar part by Sterl is one of the closest parts to his Pale Blue Eyes part and so the song is very much a Velvet Underground song on several counts. (By the way I don't mean Lou's guitar solo in the song, I mean the part that Sterl plays during the singing).

To do with the mixing, Rathke was a bad choice to mix it because no matter what he ended up doing he was always going to end up getting slated for being Lou's hired guitar player mixing a VU album. Someone else more impartial (Robert Quine, Dean Wareham, ANYONE) should have been given the task if Lou and John couldn't see eye to eye enough to do it together. Having said that I wouldn't say that Rathke necessarily deliberately mixed Lou up that much, one factor might well be that Lou was actually using a lot louder and rockier guitars and effects than Sterl was, so arguably Rathke just ended up conveying the accurate sound that the band had in '93. In other words Lou was drowing Sterl out on stage and Rathke just captured that faithfully on disc...

Anyway guys surely the version of Heroin from that album is beyond reproach...?

If Rathke was the mixer of choice, you can bet that Lou held all of the album rights necessary to make the decisions. Lou has always shoved himself in front - going back to the VU. I think I read some comments by Moe on that topic. Obviously he did it to Quine after The Blue Mask.

Some Kinda Love is AWFUL! I can't believe Lou permitted it to be on the album!!

Does he really think so little of Sterl and Cale that he treats them that way? Yes. I suppose he always had a place in his heart for Moe.

After a bit of thought I voted for 1969 Live over the Quine Tapes - there's nothing on the latter that beats the amazin versions of What Goes On and White Light/White Heat from 1969, although some of the rest of it's a bit dull. I listen to the Quines from time to time but it has failed to get under my skin completely, don't really know why.

Final V.U. ! .... naw , just kidding.

Came down to Quine tapes and 1969.
I listen to 1969 more often.

simonm wrote:After a bit of thought I voted for 1969 Live over the Quine Tapes - there's nothing on the latter that beats the amazin versions of What Goes On and White Light/White Heat from 1969, although some of the rest of it's a bit dull. I listen to the Quines from time to time but it has failed to get under my skin completely, don't really know why.

I agree totally, the quine set failed to arouse any real interest in me...but I won't vote because the list leaves out the likes of Live '68/Uptight, Guitar Amp etc....