The Velvet Forum

Reading the intriguing thread on 'When did the Velvet Underground finish' has made me think of a potentially equally debatable question - when did they begin?! Was it:

a) 1964(?) - When John (apparently alone) recorded 'Loop'. Way before the band actually got together, but originally released under the VU name, presumably with the band's OK;

b) Early 1965 - When Lou recorded 'The Ostrich' as The Primitives (featuring John if I remember correctly?), then put together the band that would become VU;

c) July 1965 - With the recording of the 'Early Demos' as featured on PSAS, and clearly featuring VU songs;

d) 11 December 1965 - After Mo joined and they played their first actual gig billed as the Velvet Underground?

I'd say sometime between (b) and (c). In that period, John and Lou had run into Sterling Morrison and invited him and John's flatmate Angus MacLise to join, losing that crazy (ex-)girlfriend that originally played with them along the way. That's the start of the V.U., although they weren't called V.U. yet (I believe they were The Warlocks at that time).

If you want to be precise, take the moment when Conrad (I believe) walked in with the Velvet Underground pocket that gave them their definitive name, which was sometime in the spring of 1965.

(a) is too soon as it is before Sterling (and Angus). Loop is a Squeeze-like curiosity, something called V.U. when it isn't really.

(d) is too late because they had been playing as The Velvet Underground before then, improvising soundtracks for Heliczer.

Definitely NOT (a) or (b).

The important thing to remember is The Velvet Underground was a BAND. It was a group of people playing music TOGETHER. Cale recording "Loop" is exactly that: CALE recording "Loop." I would say when Cale, Lou, Sterl and Angus began playing, because if Angus wouldn't have had a problem with playing at scheduled times, there would have been no Moe!

I agree. Start of the Velvet Underground = first time Reed, Cale, Morrison and Maclise played together. Which would be, what, Spring '65, when they did the music for Heliczer's Launching Of The Dream Weapon.

Arjan - can you explain a bit more about The Warlocks and the "crazy ex-girlfriend" for someone who (like me) hasn't read What's Welsh For Zen? Who else was in this band?

I'd go for Spring '65 myself, for the reasons given above, but I have one problem with that. Many of the replies to the 'when did they finish' thread stress the importance of Mo to the VU sound, and she's consistently referred to as a 'founder member' of the band. If we're now saying that ain't the case, then surely the band finished, at the latest, when Sterling (the last 'founder member') left?

Kill Mick wrote:Many of the replies to the 'when did they finish' thread stress the importance of Mo to the VU sound, and she's consistently referred to as a 'founder member' of the band.

There's a subtle distinction between an "original" and the "definitive/classic" lineup. Because no music featuring MacLise has survived (that we know of), those two terms (original/definitive) are easily thrown together for the VU. The original lineup featured Angus, but the definitive one was Reed/Cale/Morrison/Tucker. Maureen, for all her importance, was no founding member, but the band only became complete when she arrived.

Mark wrote:Arjan - can you explain a bit more about The Warlocks and the "crazy ex-girlfriend"

What I can remember (been a while since I read Zen), there was some mentally unbalanced chick who at times was the girlfriend of both Reed and Cale (where have we heard that before?) and who played the recorder with them as they played on street corners. I believe this period they were called The Falling Spikes.

This ended when they ran into Sterling. They ditched the girl and became The Warlocks with Angus. (Mind you, all this is from memory. I'll see if I have time to grab Zen tonight).

I would say it's when they started calling themselves THE VELVET UNDERGROUND instead of The Primitives, The Falling Spikes, The Warlocks...

Mark wrote:the "crazy ex-girlfriend"

For the record, her (stage) name was Electra and she was an unemployed actress who sang and played with the boys while they played guitar and recorder on street corners and in the Café Wha. The three of them were called The Falling Spikes. (What's Welsh for Zen?, p. 76).

She proved too unpredictable for Reed and Cale to handle and so the boys ditched her. Next phase was The Warlocks, which was Reed/Cale/Morrison/MacLise and so the direct precursor to The Velvet Underground.