The Velvet Forum

More Google finds... Not sure if this has been seen on Olivier's or Arjan's site or whatever but just in case, here's a VU article from German Sounds magazine (double-issue #34 November/December 1971)...

Hello,

I'm so glad you're talking about that German article from 1971.

I'm 34 years old, from France. As a teenager I got into alternative rock bands, most of them acknowledging Lou Reed's VU as one of their biggest influences so one day round 1986, I finally bought the banana album and became obsessed with that weird, wild, wonderful thing called the Velvet Underground.

Obviously there was no internet when I became a Velvets fan, so in order to learn more about them and their works I took on buying old French rock sheets. Now the French journos know their Lou Reed by heart and I discovered Doug Yule was given a lot of bad rap pretty much everywhere. The general idea was that Yule had taken Cale's place and didn't deserve it and then had proceeded to steal the band's name! The fact that a Sesnick-induced Reed had fired Cale was politely understated or simply left untold. As for "Squeeze", it was just absolute dirge. Once I read a letter from a Lou Reed fan in a magazine stating that "Louise", the final track on "Squeeze" was "a blatant homophobic slur on Lou Reed". Obviously it is NOT,and that letter was a pile of nonsense but as the words were printed and I'd never heard "Louise" and I had a lot of admiration for Cale anyway... I didn't think much of Doug Yule from that moment on. I would see a copy of "Squeeze" selling for 50 francs (more or less a fiver) in a record fair and make a disgusted face. That Doug Yule. Charlatan. Fraud. Messed the Velvets up. Thank God that Lou became Lou and that loser disappeared never to be seen again.

In 2004, everybody knows the Velvet Underground is one of the greatest acts in rock history. In 1970 however, whether you like it or not, Lou was another former Warholian darling boy the Velvets were just that so-called "Long Island dance band" getting along somehow and trying hard to pen that hit song that would secure their future. And "Loaded" is the result of this, it isn't groundbreaking, it isn't avant-garde at all, but as a straight rock LP it's quite simply a masterpiece. But Sesnick was putting much too much pressure on songwriter Reed, as Lou, apparently in a sorry state had become dependent on Sesnick's emotional support. One day round June 1970 Sesnick decided that cute, sweet-voiced Dougie was more frontstage material than Lou. Doug Yule never demanded anything, because you see, Lou wasn't really his big brother and Lou wasn't really his hero, to Doug, Lou was something in between. And if he tried to sing "like Lou", that wasn't because he had planned to take his place!
Doug did a lot on "Loaded" because he loved Lou's songs and wanted them to sound great, not because he wanted to "take over the Velvets." Lou Reed quit the Velvets to escape from Sesnick and resented Doug for not realizing Sesnick was one big piece of shit. But how could Doug could confront a manager calling him "the next Paul McCartney"?
Lou was gone, and life went on, and Sterling said the infamous credits on the back of "Loaded" were "another sesnick-ism".The band carried on without Reed, at least to try and promote "Loaded" which was tipped by Lenny Kaye in Rolling Stone as surefire hit. Obviously the idea of a Velvet Underground without Lou Reed now seems ludicrous, but at the time,it was only rock'n'roll. Sesnick had an easy job persuading the three remaining Velvets they were on the brink of success, with or without Lou. (Apparently the manager had inted Lou would be back at one point or the other.) Doug's honest enough to admit that at the time he was glad to switch to guitar. Naive and overkeen, Doug Yule certainly was at the end of 1970, but he had just contributed to a fantastic album and felt he was on a roll -Sesnick kept telling him so anyway- and nobody should forget Sterling Morrison and Mo Tucker were also into this. Much to Sesnick's chagrin, the Velvets soon found they were not going to be stars in the U.S.A. with "Loaded" either and went home. That was the time Sterling quit to settle in Texas. By then the Velvets had more or less disbanded.
Meanwhile, "Loaded" sold over 100,000 copies in Europe, including 25,000 in the Netherlands alone where it went gold and was granted an award. Sesnick felt there was money to be made on the other side of the pond, and decided to send the Velvet Underground to tour. So Lou was gone, Sterling was gone and so to speak there was no more Velvet Underground to be sent. Sesnick bamboozled Yule into this: now kid, here's your chance to be a star. Now surely Doug Yule could have said no? He was actually thinking of going back to a proper job in a factory and Sesnick comes to him and goes: "do you want to work in a factory or do you want to tour Europe as the leader of a successful rock'n'roll band?".
Put yourself in his shoes, what would YOU have done? So Yule went to Europe as the leader of the Velvet Underground and as such he was rather well received by the audiences in England and Holland. Mo Tucker went too and to this day, nobody holds it against her.
I really wonder what are the images that spring to Yule's mind when he thinks of 1971 now. Does he think of one of those infamous gigs in a New Hampshire skilodge or does he remember that night in Amsterdam when a crowd of 3,500 came and cheered? And the "Velvets" gave several interviews and the fact Lou was gone was never omitted. Now to this 1971 German article:

(quote)
Maureen Tucker: "We're still playing the old numbers, but want to get away from that during the next time and do new things. Of course people expect from Velvet Underground the song ,Heroin', and for that reason we think about choosing a new name. Three of us plead for that, while I myself and manager Steve want to keep the old one. Of course economic aspects play a role: Under the name Velvet Underground we simply get more gigs."
(unquote)

NOW SO MUCH FOR THAT "YULE STOLE THE VELVET UNDERGROUND NAME" LEGEND.

The Velvets disbanded at the end of 1971, because they felt like "a ghost band." Sesnick told Yule he'd better work on a solo album and sold it to the record companies as a new Velvet LP. And Yule, who never felt comfortable as "the new Lou Reed", who never had nothing to do with the Warhol crowd, wrote lyrics like "Jack and Jane were really quite insane, but did you think that I ever cared?".
No, I think you only wanted to be in a rock'n'roll band, buddy.

According to most critics "Squeeze" was a crime against the legacy of the Velvet Underground. Sesnick took the front money, disappeared for good and left Yule and his backing band, specially assembled to promote the LP stranded in London. Yule never got a single penny for "Squeeze". He didn't get a single cent in royalties either, as Sesnick had pocketed the advance from the ASCAP. Another proof that crime doesn't pay, one might argue, but ultimately Sesnick's most sickening accomplishment: I make as much money as I can before hitting the road and as for the Velvet Underground, well Dougie boy is a born scapegoat isn't he. He'll cope...

Well, Doug was so useless that less than a year after the final pseudo Velvet gig, Lou Reed called him to work him again. (I suspect that Mo Tucker got them together again.) At that time Lou Reed had discovered that Mr Katz, his manager was perhaps even worse than Sesnick. Indeed Katz's greed is no legend, costing Reed blood, sweat tears and a lot of money. Sadly, at the beginning of 1976, Lou Reed was furious to find out Doug was working with manager's Katz son in a Katz-managed new band: American flyer. Lou lost his head with Doug, and that was it.
Hence my theory is this Lou-will-never-forgive-Doug feud is much more about what happened in early 1976 than about that Velveteens-do-Europe thang from 1970-73.

Needless to say many Velvets pundits don't really care, as long as Doug's the baddie. Fair enough, when those Velvet pundits learn about Sesnick, Katz and all their schemes, it does get slightly better: Doug becomes the idiot.
We all know rock'n'roll mythology is made of heroes and zeroes. Velvet folklore's here to stay and Doug Yule shall always be depicted as the arrivist-who-would-be-Lou, the "evil twin" or the dimwit who didn't get it. Well, OK then as long as we remember this is simply not true. And when I hear some Velvet fans saying that "Doug was OK after all", just to show how kind-hearted they are, I believe that Yule's contribution to the band still remains underrated.
So let me get this straight: Doug's basslines, voice and youthful enthousiasm really helped a number of Lou's songs to blossom into rightful classics. Think about "she's my best friend" on VU or "Sweet Jane" or "Candy says" or the extraordinary "New Age". Now what, you don't like New Age"? "Yule's singing's bland". Hey guys, Lou Reed asked him to sing that way. "He didn't get a word he was singing, Reed said so!" Well, over the years Lou Reed has had about 500 less-than-complimentary comments about Cale, did that make you hate Cale?
As much as I like my uncle Lou, I'd take everything he says with a grain of salt, especially when he talks about his former "business partners".
Doug Yule's input on the Gray album and "Loaded" is as important as John Cale's on the Velvets' first two LPs. Obviously the result was totally different from the first two Velvet albums but the third and fourth LPs were still masterpieces on their own terms. (It's not John vs Doug anyway. It never was.)

Oh yeah,"Squeeze". Yule himself finds that album pretty embarrassing. I eventually downloaded it 4 years ago on a peer-to-peer. Not so bad a record actually with "Caroline" and "Friends" as stand-out numbers. Should have never ever been released as a Velvet Underground album. Would have undoubtedly achieved cult status (and would be available on CD right now) if published under the name of Doug Yule.
Anyway, I really believe Doug paid enough for his "crime".

Sorry for this neverending first post. It's just that sometimes I get to think everyday is Bash-Doug Yule day in Velvetland, and sometimes it gets to me, and sometimes I can't stand it anymore...

But Doug would just be "validated" as a true Velvet and it would be alright..

I agree, and I often feel bad for Doug that he gets the "second-rate Velvet" tag. When Cale left the band, which obviously was a major loss, they did change but managed to retain their high level of originality and excellence. Doug has to be given credit for fitting in, contributing and holding his own. Some of the stuff they did with him is as good as it gets, and the band live during his tenure could be as ferocious and exhilerating as the glory days with with Cale.

Most of us do give Doug his props, you don't find alot of bashing him here.

When Doug came, all that happened was that they became a conventional rock band and Lou's influences came to the forefront. They didn't mesh well with the proposed avant-garde standards that had to be lived up to (I still like the "Murder Mystery"), but when they put that aside, you had some pretty good songs like "Head Held High" and of course "Sweet Jane" and "Rock And Roll". The third album was much better than Loaded because it was just so void of any extraneous material. Loaded had its shots at trying to recapture the sounds of yesteryear and failed in that regard. That's because Cale was absent and Doug was no Cale. When they played 'conventional' music, Yule was a good compliment. I think "Jesus" is a fine song. It's just that he couldn't bring forth the artistic dimension, that's all.

Great post from Mark

I think Doug Yule is every bit as important a Velvet Underground member as John Cale. Let me qualify that statement by saying I certainly do NOT think Doug Yule is nearly as important as an uber-godfather of Rock as John Cale, clearly Cale has a supremely eminent position as one of the most legendary, extraordinary and influential artists in the history of modern music, whereas Yule blatanly doesn't (its so obvious it barely needs stating). But Doug Yule was an incredibly important member of the latter day VU, perhaps more keyed into the music of those records than Tucker or Morrison who appeared to be clearly disgruntled after Cale's departure, mistrustful of Lou after having seen him do away with John so ruthlessly, and skeptical of the integrity of the later music they were making.

People (and there are a fair few) who regard the Couch and Loaded records as being inferior to the first 2 will clearly disagree with this stance and they are entitled to since why wouldn't someone who thinks that the VU lost their way with the later records think Yule is worthless-it stands to reason to make that connection.

However most people aren't of that opinion-this is clear from the fact that when I meet someone who says they love the Velvet Underground, I don't expect them to qualify it with terms like 'Cale-era' or 'post-Cale'-some do but by and large fans tend to regard songs like Pale Blue Eyes, Sweet Jane and What Goes On as every bit as great as Waiting for the Man, All Tomorrows Parties or White Light/White Heat. That's certainly the way I feel, each album by a band is going to have a different feel depending on the time/situation/mood etc that surrounds the writing and recording-the VU catalogue demonstrates this variation in spades yet Lou's consistently brilliant songwriting serves to bind all 4 albums together as a cohesive whole.

Two more points:

1) We're lucky that Yule sounds as similar to Reed as he does because the reason Reed isn't singing half the songs on Loaded is because his voice was in a bad shape after having been touring constantly-luckily even seasoned Velvets' fans find it hard telling the two apart sometimes which is great because it means that even when Yule is singing, the songs retain a distinct Velvets/Reed type feel within the vocal

2) Let's not overlook his actual bass playing which was not just highly competent but in fact very musical and stylistic. Examples? Listen to Beginning to See the Light on Max's Kansas City, and listen to Yule's glorious bass outro in the coda at the end of New Age on the Max's recording.

[quote="Doctor Bob"] We're lucky that Yule sounds as similar to Reed as he does because the reason Reed isn't singing half the songs on Loaded is because his voice was in a bad shape after having been touring constantly-luckily even seasoned Velvets' fans find it hard telling the two apart sometimes which is great because it means that even when Yule is singing, the songs retain a distinct Velvets/Reed type feel within the vocal

quote]

I heard it was only three songs on Loaded: Sweet Nuthin, New Age, and I Found A Reason. He does sound very similar so it's hard to tell. But PLEASE tell me it was Lou singing Sweet Jane. The expressiveness and personality of that song's vocals are part of my whole image of Lou. Was it Yule? Well, that's not the end of the world; it means Yule is also a talented singer. But the thought of that being someone else would take some getting used to.

Speaking of that song, someone here has that quote from it on their signature... Just to let them know, I always quote that song to people too... I recite the "There's even some evil mothers" through "turn around and hate it" part. Those are words to remember every day.

"Sweet Jane" is sung by Lou, just like "I found a reason".
Doug Yule sings 4 pieces on "Loaded": who loves the sun, new age, lonesome cowboy bill and oh sweet nuthin. Doug does a full range of backing vocals everywhere else. Mo Tucker also does some backing vocals. When people say she took no part in "loaded" they mean she didn't do any drumming on the album.

As for Doug's voice being real close to Lou's, the most striking example to me is the Max's Kansas City live album.

Cameo Role wrote:When Doug came, all that happened was that they became a conventional rock band and Lou's influences came to the forefront. They didn't mesh well with the proposed avant-garde standards that had to be lived up to (I still like the "Murder Mystery"), but when they put that aside, you had some pretty good songs like "Head Held High" and of course "Sweet Jane" and "Rock And Roll". The third album was much better than Loaded because it was just so void of any extraneous material. Loaded had its shots at trying to recapture the sounds of yesteryear and failed in that regard. That's because Cale was absent and Doug was no Cale. When they played 'conventional' music, Yule was a good compliment. I think "Jesus" is a fine song. It's just that he couldn't bring forth the artistic dimension, that's all.

One thing you have to remember is that Lou was TRYING to depart from the avant-garde dimension, which had a helluva lot to do with Cale's departure. That had as much to do with manager Steve Sesnick's manipulation as it did with the band's weariness. As they matured, the band wanted hits.

As far as Loaded failing to recapture Cale-era VU, well...of course it didn't! For the first time Lou was trying to make a 100% radio-accessible album! By that time, Sesnick had grown so tired of Lou that Doug was being maneuvered into a pseudo-lead role. (I am pulling this from the Fully Loaded liner notes).

With Cale, we would never have had Album 3 or 4, and that's the bottom line. And I for one am leading the crusade to label Doug Yule as a superb addition to the group.

mark makers wrote:It's just that sometimes I get to think everyday is Bash-Doug Yule day in Velvetland, and sometimes it gets to me, and sometimes I can't stand it anymore...

Well, because you were replying to my post I'd just like to make it clear that I have not ever bashed Doug and have always appreciated his input to the band.