The Velvet Forum

This question has been puzzling me for a while. In the Todd Haynes documentary one of Lou's early band mates says *Lou you're not a very good guitar player". Somewhere else, maybe from the same source, Cale remembers telling Lou "The lyrics are good but the music doesn't stack up". Or words to that effect in both cases, I'm quoting from memory.

So, how did Lou move from the folk/blues style of the "Words and Music" demos to the styles on the long improvisations and the first two VU albums?

All theories welcomed, the weirder the better.

My knee jerk answer to that is that got himself a Vox amp and stopped playing acoustic

I think he was always heading that way, from his interest in Ornette Coleman etc when he was in college to the experimental tunings he was using on The Ostrich etc. Two things possibly happened in 1965 that pushed him more in that direction - the partnership with Cale (Maclise too?) which showed him the way towards integrating more radical sounds into the rock and roll that was his main love, and secondly, the involvement with the NY arts scene (Heliczer etc) that gave him the framework to try wilder things than you could get away with in a bar gig.

Also, more and different drugs.

And another reason John Cale whose influence on Lou musically probably cannot be overstated.

Didn't Sterling say that he heard some loud and experimental guitar playing coming from Lou's room back in their Syracuse days?

My guess is that Lou was experimenting with feedback and distorted guitars already back then but didn't find an outlet for it before later (first with the Ostricht and later with VU). His love for doo wop and Dylan went parallell to his love for Ornette Coleman and other free jazz heroes of the era, but only later did he find a way to combine those influences. Cale probably encouraged Lou to do more of his feeback solo stuff and less Pale blue eyes stuff & also found ways/arrangements to combine traditions.

As for the early VU demos I wonder if they intended them to sound that folkish or if they ended up that way because they didn't have access to the right equipment (i.e.guitar amplifiers, or perhaps they had some but didn't use them because they didn't have a PA and wanted the lyrics to be heard?). I'm guessing the latter.

You can hear Cale already trying to pull them in louder, wilder directions by the time of the demos on PS&S disc 1. The viola on Heroin and the noisy part on Waiting. Lou still seems pretty straight musically (if not lyrically) at this point.

What really would be fascinating to hear is the tapes of the early band improvising at those Piero Heliczer events. They would seem to be the real missing link. Such a shame they seem to be lost.

Thanks for the replies, they're all plausible - looks like some of us think Cale helped draw out ideas that Lou already had. Maybe it all started with "Why don't you smile", the version by the All Night Workers has a certain feel to it. And yes, it does seem that Sterling heard a guitarist on the floor above serenading the Officers Training Corps at Syracuse.