3rd Album Deluxe - Bill Levenson drops a hint?

[bobbydriver]

What about the post-reformation live recordings of the 3rd album tracks with Cale playing?

Certainly Pale Blue Eyes with the lovely viola on it - even Lou's wayward vocals can't spoil it too much.

Also After Hours with Cale on Piano, and the 9 minute wig-out on Some Kinda Love (Cale hammering the piano towards the end)

[Caridad Rodriguez]

Certainly Pale Blue Eyes with the lovely viola on it - even Lou's wayward vocals can't spoil it too much.

However much I like Cale's "weeping" viola on there, I still have mixed emotions about the fact that it pushes Sterling back to rhythm guitar only. I feel both should've been given solo spot.

[iaredatsun]

What about the post-reformation live recordings of the 3rd album tracks with Cale playing?

Certainly Pale Blue Eyes with the lovely viola on it - even Lou's wayward vocals can't spoil it too much.

Also After Hours with Cale on Piano, and the 9 minute wig-out on Some Kinda Love (Cale hammering the piano towards the end)

I don't remember any of it. I'm afraid I've blocked the memory from my mind.

For me, it'd have to be all period stuff.

Maybe from this material:

Candy Says (Closet)
WGO (Closet)
Jesus (Closet)
After Hours (Closet)
Thats The Story of My Life (Closet)
Guess I'm Falling In Love (Studio)
Mr Rain (which?)
Beginning to See The Light (Cale)
Temptation Inside Your Heart
Stephanie Says


Closet mix stuff because it's the closest sound to how I imagine Cale would have influenced it. No Pale Blue Eyes, because Cale didn't like that song.
I wonder though if it would have had some sonic element in common with The Marble Index? Can't think of any tracks form that that would fit, though.

[peppergomez]

So I'm not the only VU fanatic who finds the 93 tour unlistenable? I tried I really did. It's mostly Lous fault IMO. His vocal delivery just butchered most of the songs.

[iaredatsun]

So I'm not the only VU fanatic who finds the 93 tour unlistenable? I tried I really did. It's mostly Lous fault IMO. His vocal delivery just butchered most of the songs.

I was not going to go. Then at the last minute I thought I might regret not going. So, I went and then regretted. Lou's vocal embellishments make me cringe. He also seemed to want get the songs out of the way as soon as possible with that brusque workman-like let's-get-this-job-done-and-go-home feeling, as he insensitively ploughed through the material. I felt he also did that for his solo gigs after the 70s from Live in Italy onwards. I wondered whether he was just being defensive and tense at those times. I sometimes think performers seem to do it in their later careers under a perceived pressure to make gigs feel more exciting.

[Kill Mick]

I'd go for:

Side One
Stephanie Says (Original mix)
What Goes On (Closet)
Walk And Talk (Fully Loaded)
Pale Blue Eyes (Closet)
Jesus (Closet)

Side Two
Hey Mr Rain (Version 1)
Beginning To See The Light (Early version)
Countess From Hong Kong (PSAS)
The Story Of My Life (Closet)
Foggy Notion (PSAS)
Temptation Inside Your Heart (Original mix)

The actual VU tracks are the ones we know they performed with Cale, or date from the first post-Cale gig so presumably were written with him. I don't buy the idea that 'Pale Blue Eyes' wouldn't be included coz Cale didn't like it (which I hadn't heard) - he played it with them in '68 and '93 so I'm guessing he'd be persuaded. I also don't think 'Guess I'm Falling' would be included, if that was going to be on an album it would have been WL/WH. 'Walk And Talk' on the other hand, which we know they performed in '67, was resurrected in '70 so could be a contender. 'Countess' was written with Cale, so why not?!

[rnranimal]

I'd go for:

Side One
Stephanie Says (Original mix)
What Goes On (Closet)
Walk And Talk (Fully Loaded)
Pale Blue Eyes (Closet)
Jesus (Closet)

Side Two
Hey Mr Rain (Version 1)
Beginning To See The Light (Early version)
Countess From Hong Kong (PSAS)
The Story Of My Life (Closet)
Foggy Notion (PSAS)
Temptation Inside Your Heart (Original mix)

The actual VU tracks are the ones we know they performed with Cale, or date from the first post-Cale gig so presumably were written with him. I don't buy the idea that 'Pale Blue Eyes' wouldn't be included coz Cale didn't like it (which I hadn't heard) - he played it with them in '68 and '93 so I'm guessing he'd be persuaded. I also don't think 'Guess I'm Falling' would be included, if that was going to be on an album it would have been WL/WH. 'Walk And Talk' on the other hand, which we know they performed in '67, was resurrected in '70 so could be a contender. 'Countess' was written with Cale, so why not?!

I agree on "Pale Blue Eyes". Even if Cale didn't like it (I also don't remember hearing that), I don't think Lou would've kept one of his best songs off the album to please John. Actually, I'm certain he wouldn't have.

I hate that original mix of "Stephanie Says". Not the overall mix, I like that, but those off-key backing vocals are just painful. I really wish they'd done a new mix for the WL/WH box. Since they were already remixing the Another View Cale tracks, why not give us a new "Stephanie Says" that is close to the original mix, but without those awful backing vocals? What's the deal there anyway? Are there two different backing vocal tracks on the multis or did they manipulate them to sound ok for the VU mix? If the latter, then kudos. Because it makes the song (a great song) listenable vs the original mix.

[Kill Mick]

I'd go for:

Side One
Stephanie Says (Original mix)
What Goes On (Closet)
Walk And Talk (Fully Loaded)
Pale Blue Eyes (Closet)
Jesus (Closet)

Side Two
Hey Mr Rain (Version 1)
Beginning To See The Light (Early version)
Countess From Hong Kong (PSAS)
The Story Of My Life (Closet)
Foggy Notion (PSAS)
Temptation Inside Your Heart (Original mix)

The actual VU tracks are the ones we know they performed with Cale, or date from the first post-Cale gig so presumably were written with him. I don't buy the idea that 'Pale Blue Eyes' wouldn't be included coz Cale didn't like it (which I hadn't heard) - he played it with them in '68 and '93 so I'm guessing he'd be persuaded. I also don't think 'Guess I'm Falling' would be included, if that was going to be on an album it would have been WL/WH. 'Walk And Talk' on the other hand, which we know they performed in '67, was resurrected in '70 so could be a contender. 'Countess' was written with Cale, so why not?!

I agree on "Pale Blue Eyes". Even if Cale didn't like it (I also don't remember hearing that), I don't think Lou would've kept one of his best songs off the album to please John. Actually, I'm certain he wouldn't have.

I hate that original mix of "Stephanie Says". Not the overall mix, I like that, but those off-key backing vocals are just painful. I really wish they'd done a new mix for the WL/WH box. Since they were already remixing the Another View Cale tracks, why not give us a new "Stephanie Says" that is close to the original mix, but without those awful backing vocals? What's the deal there anyway? Are there two different backing vocal tracks on the multis or did they manipulate them to sound ok for the VU mix? If the latter, then kudos. Because it makes the song (a great song) listenable vs the original mix.

D'you know, I'd never noticed the backing vocals until you pointed it out - God, they're awful! Still love 'Stephanie' though, and in fact having thought about it would go for the mono mix from the Sundazed singles box - I love the sound of that, the viola really stands out (but I'll have to listen to it again to check out the vocals!).

My tracklist tries to keep the overall feel of the album, e.g. replacing 'Candy' with 'Stephanie', 'Some Kinda Love' with 'Walk And Talk', which to my ears have certain similarities. I think there's a post on here somewhere that says 'Countess from HK' evolved from 'Sweet Sister Ray'. Don't know if that's opinion or fact, but it sounds plausible and I think would fit into the overall feel of the album. Of course, with Cale it could be a completely different album with a completely different tracklist.

Now, how about the first album without Nico? Or the second album with Nico?!

[iaredatsun]

Side One
Stephanie Says (Original mix)
What Goes On (Closet)
Walk And Talk (Fully Loaded)
Pale Blue Eyes (Closet)
Jesus (Closet)

Side Two
Hey Mr Rain (Version 1)
Beginning To See The Light (Early version)
Countess From Hong Kong (PSAS)
The Story Of My Life (Closet)
Foggy Notion (PSAS)
Temptation Inside Your Heart (Original mix)

I like the tracks list suggestion. Except I cannot agree with the Walk It and Talk It from the Loaded sessions. Even if that was a Cale era song, by that point the connection was long long lost.

Stephanie is a good replacement for Candy Says. Personally, I love the off-key backing vocals on the original mix. I suspect that they would have been Cale's idea and that that approach, maybe to rnrollanimal's disagreement, would have been an element on 3rd.

Sorry, I mis-remembered the Pale Blue Eyes story. It was Sterling Morrison who disliked it, not Cale:

'That's a song about Lou's old girlfriend in Syracuse [University]. I said, 'Lou, if I wrote a song like that, I wouldn't make you play it.' My position on that album was one of acquiescence.

[EDIT] I just re-listened to Countess From Hong Kong. The harmonica kills it for me.

[peppergomez]

One could argue that Sterlings position in the entire band was one of aqueiensce, at lest in the sense that he (and Mo) went allow with reed sacking cale, against their better judgement. They should have called reeds bluff and left the band.