The Velvet Forum

Essay is from David Fricke of Rolling Stone. All it says about the recording dates, besides "Recorded November 26 & 27, 1969" is "There is no remaining documentation as to set order or which songs come from what date".

It seems he contacted Doug, who didn't really have very much to say. No evidence of any recent discussion with Moe.

He places Lou's death in 2014. Hard to tell whether this is Fricke's error or a typo, since the very next sentence begins by misspelling "The" as "Tha". Inexcusable, either way.

hkmartin wrote:Essay is from David Fricke of Rolling Stone. All it says about the recording dates, besides "Recorded November 26 & 27, 1969" is "There is no remaining documentation as to set order or which songs come from what date".

It seems he contacted Doug, who didn't really have very much to say. No evidence of any recent discussion with Moe.

He places Lou's death in 2014. Hard to tell whether this is Fricke's error or a typo, since the very next sentence begins by misspelling "The" as "Tha". Inexcusable, either way.

Wow. just wow. I don't know if it'd be worse to hear those weren't proofread or that they actually were.


This article has been popping up on yahoo's front page. Sounds like Moe doesn't remember much either:

https://www.yahoo.com/music/the-velvet- ... 09396.html


So these are definitely not full shows then? I figured that from what has always been said in the past, but when they labeled them as set 1, 2, 3, 4 and keep saying they are from 11/26-27, it started sounding like maybe these were 4 full sets from two nights. If these are from just two nights, there can't be many, if any, performances missing.

Well we don't know, perhaps sooner or later a 'Matrix 2'

dial4 wrote:Well we don't know, perhaps sooner or later a 'Matrix 2'

No, I don't think so. This is the amount we knew existed, but it was always said that it wasn't full sets. That after recording full sets, Peter then re-copied just his favorite performances. But if these are only from two nights, could there really have been more he didn't keep? I haven't heard the discs yet, so maybe that will answer some questions, but I don't think these could be from two nights AND only be a selection of what was played. I just wonder what makes them certain these are only from 11/26-27. "Sister Ray" is the same as Quine's, but it's listed as 12/3 on there, so at least one of them is wrong.

yes, totally with you.
He must have fell in love for "real good time together" & "some kinda love" too!
When I first saw the track list, I always thought it was not only from Nov 26/27
With the amount of songs they have, why would they have choose (?) to play 4 "real good time together"?
Plus, according to Doug it was at this time Lou started being bored playing "heroin" each night, instead they were experimenting new tracks like "sad song", "follow the leader", "ride into the sun" or "lonely saturday night" (if only we'd had those on tape). So, i really think it's from more than 2 nights

Ps: sorry for my aproximative english

So why not issue only the rest of the material to complete what we have from the two last discs of the superdeluxethirdalbum...
Oh Peter and Robert, why erase all those tracks !

because they knew we'd buy it even though we already had half of the tracks.
why miss the opportunity to make more money? shame...

stooge wrote:because they knew we'd buy it even though we already had half of the tracks.
why miss the opportunity to make more money? shame...

Exactly.

The Matrix complete box is always what should've been done. Those 2 discs shouldn't have been in the 3rd box, but they knew it would help sell it over including a more relevant, but already heard bootleg show like La Cave. To include two Matrix discs as a major selling point and then release the full 4 CD set the next year was really blatant and uncool.

Very true, but it did help monetize the purchase. Peter Abram asks decent money. That's why they ripped him off in 1974 using the copies of the acetates, and why the Doors did the same with their Matrix Tapes, releasing bootleg copies.

TeddyB wrote:Very true, but it did help monetize the purchase. Peter Abram asks decent money. That's why they ripped him off in 1974 using the copies of the acetates, and why the Doors did the same with their Matrix Tapes, releasing bootleg copies.

That's how I think it went down, too. Budgetary realities probably forced them to squeeze as much out of the Matrix orange that they could.

However, if they HAD to double-dip, I would have preferred that the 3rd LP set included a remaster of the 1969 Live album. That would have both primarily utilized Matrix recordings, but also give fans something unique and special, not to mention matched how they handled the Max's album (except I would have expected it to be complete). As it stands, those two discs on the SDE are now just wasted space.

Actually, I'm still holding out for a Live 1969 reissue next year. But, admittedly, it will sound a bit funky when Cole Ave tracks transition into Matrix material, since that the gap in sound quality (which was always there) is now so profound.