What is the VU fan's Holy Trinity of Music?
-
Trimac20
I've really resisted this thread until now, cuz there are more than three bands/artists I love, that aren't anything to do with the Velvs (as I like to call them). I was put off by the whole rock as religion metaphor, too. I don't believe in many things though, and I'd have to say music is one of them, so maybe its not so inappropriate. Anyone see Dan Graham's film on the subject?
But reading it when I should be working was interesting.
Anyway yeah. My tastes shift and change - would have said VU /Half Japanese /Stooges a few years back, but lately I've come to realise that I never stopped really loving the Ramones (almost all their stuff apart from the last 3 or 4 albums) more than the Stooges, although Fun House as a single entity blows away any single Ramones LP. Half Jap I've cooled on, but another old favourite is edging in - Patti Smith - still amazing live, loads of great bootlegs, and some of the recent stuff is good. The MC5 I love, but the glut of not-great bootlegs has taken the edge off that I bit. The 'True Testimonial' film is really amazing though - they WERE the best live band on the planet for a while. I'm obsessed with Bob Dylan also, but he's in a league of his own (for the mid-late 60s anyway). And I love the Dolls, but there isn't a definitive album or bootleg that does them justice. They're more like an idea to me.
When you have a discrete body of work, it sits on it's own on the shelf as a testament to the band, and sometimes thats all you have; but bootlegs give you a different angle on the real band if you're lucky. I love the VU because of the bootlegs really, and I think that's what makes them unique - there isn't a single one where I'd say 'they were crap that night', yes? - too often with other bands the bootlegs undermine the official product. The Stooges are the classic case, but it has happened to a lot of bands, even the Beach Boys and the Beatles (I like them a lo too).
The reverse is true of bands like Televison and Suicide - small amount of official studio stuff, some not so great, but great bootlegs!
My conclusion - in the Stones/Who/Zep era it was possible to have certainty, based on narrowly focussed rock worldview and limited media, official releases and live rep, so people came up with silly ideas like 'holy trinity of rock', but today I think there's too much out there to make these kinds of judgements. Where do John Lee Hooker and Nina Simone or the Urinals fit?
PS mg196 if you have A True Testimonial, I would love a copy!
But reading it when I should be working was interesting.
Anyway yeah. My tastes shift and change - would have said VU /Half Japanese /Stooges a few years back, but lately I've come to realise that I never stopped really loving the Ramones (almost all their stuff apart from the last 3 or 4 albums) more than the Stooges, although Fun House as a single entity blows away any single Ramones LP. Half Jap I've cooled on, but another old favourite is edging in - Patti Smith - still amazing live, loads of great bootlegs, and some of the recent stuff is good. The MC5 I love, but the glut of not-great bootlegs has taken the edge off that I bit. The 'True Testimonial' film is really amazing though - they WERE the best live band on the planet for a while. I'm obsessed with Bob Dylan also, but he's in a league of his own (for the mid-late 60s anyway). And I love the Dolls, but there isn't a definitive album or bootleg that does them justice. They're more like an idea to me.
When you have a discrete body of work, it sits on it's own on the shelf as a testament to the band, and sometimes thats all you have; but bootlegs give you a different angle on the real band if you're lucky. I love the VU because of the bootlegs really, and I think that's what makes them unique - there isn't a single one where I'd say 'they were crap that night', yes? - too often with other bands the bootlegs undermine the official product. The Stooges are the classic case, but it has happened to a lot of bands, even the Beach Boys and the Beatles (I like them a lo too).
The reverse is true of bands like Televison and Suicide - small amount of official studio stuff, some not so great, but great bootlegs!
My conclusion - in the Stones/Who/Zep era it was possible to have certainty, based on narrowly focussed rock worldview and limited media, official releases and live rep, so people came up with silly ideas like 'holy trinity of rock', but today I think there's too much out there to make these kinds of judgements. Where do John Lee Hooker and Nina Simone or the Urinals fit?
PS mg196 if you have A True Testimonial, I would love a copy!
-
iaredatsun
- Now jelly rolls in the street
- Posts: 1894
- Joined: 08 Jun 2004 21:38
- Location: London, Texas
-
iaredatsun
- Now jelly rolls in the street
- Posts: 1894
- Joined: 08 Jun 2004 21:38
- Location: London, Texas
As this thread has unbelievably started up again I'm going to expand the idea ad infinitum and probably beyond a joke. Great Rock Trinity bands world-wide? I've tried to stick to rock and most of these bands have 2-3 really great Lps to their name. IMO. I use the word 'great' as my personal yardstick.
Warning. this long-winded diatribe contains sections of unabashed avant-garde rock evangelism.
USA (60's and mid-to-late 70's)
Velvets (first 3)/Stooges(first 3)/Ubu (first 3 and early singles)
Germany (early 70's)
Faust (first 3)/Can(first 3)/Neu(first 2)
the UK (late 70's early 80's):
The Homosexuals/This Heat /Swell Maps
Japan (late 80's to mid 90's)
Boredoms(first 5 o r 6 CDs?)/Hanatarashi (first 4 CDs)/Violent Onsen Geisha (the 'idiotic' or 'pop' period).
Notes:
The UK is interesting (in my selection) as The Homosexuals didn't even manage to make an official LP but lots of great songs came out on singles and EPs and a comp.). This Heat made one good LP and one truly great 12" and Swell Maps I only can nominate the first LP as great.
Japan selection. Is it rock? Well in my mind it pushed rock to the limits in the way that the VU did with their first two LPs. Hanatarashi mucked around with noise/rock at various stages removed before exploding with an infantile disco and rock karaoke mix-up for their CD 4. VOG played very stupid bedroom MOR rock covers which are both excrutiatingly idiotic and a deliberately hilarious rejection of anything that made any orthodox sense be it noise or rock. Boredoms were rock but just not as we were used to thinking of it at the time. They pulled it apart, put it back together all wrong and then turned it into something quite beautiful in the process. They were certainly The Stooges (and much much more) of the 21st Century. I'll say this - The Boredoms mid-90s were the greatest live rock band I have ever seen .
But what's next I ask?
Is rock finished and dead as a truly annoying and repulsive art form?. Has it become just all too orthodox? I dunno.
Suggestions please?
Warning. this long-winded diatribe contains sections of unabashed avant-garde rock evangelism.
USA (60's and mid-to-late 70's)
Velvets (first 3)/Stooges(first 3)/Ubu (first 3 and early singles)
Germany (early 70's)
Faust (first 3)/Can(first 3)/Neu(first 2)
the UK (late 70's early 80's):
The Homosexuals/This Heat /Swell Maps
Japan (late 80's to mid 90's)
Boredoms(first 5 o r 6 CDs?)/Hanatarashi (first 4 CDs)/Violent Onsen Geisha (the 'idiotic' or 'pop' period).
Notes:
The UK is interesting (in my selection) as The Homosexuals didn't even manage to make an official LP but lots of great songs came out on singles and EPs and a comp.). This Heat made one good LP and one truly great 12" and Swell Maps I only can nominate the first LP as great.
Japan selection. Is it rock? Well in my mind it pushed rock to the limits in the way that the VU did with their first two LPs. Hanatarashi mucked around with noise/rock at various stages removed before exploding with an infantile disco and rock karaoke mix-up for their CD 4. VOG played very stupid bedroom MOR rock covers which are both excrutiatingly idiotic and a deliberately hilarious rejection of anything that made any orthodox sense be it noise or rock. Boredoms were rock but just not as we were used to thinking of it at the time. They pulled it apart, put it back together all wrong and then turned it into something quite beautiful in the process. They were certainly The Stooges (and much much more) of the 21st Century. I'll say this - The Boredoms mid-90s were the greatest live rock band I have ever seen .
But what's next I ask?
Is rock finished and dead as a truly annoying and repulsive art form?. Has it become just all too orthodox? I dunno.
Suggestions please?
Well, Punk helped turn music into a commodity to be used and abused just like any other fad. It happened to Punk, Grunge, The Prodigy (heh heh)...as soon as something interesting hits and becomes popular, it is turned into a mass-produced piece of crap. Not that I ever liked hair-metal, but once Poison made it big - that was it: Poison, Whitesnake, Cinderella, White Lion, Great White...then Grunge knocked it into the toilet. Grunge was quickly raped: Nirvana became Candlebox and on and on...iaredatsun wrote:Is rock finished and dead as a truly annoying and repulsive art form?. Has it become just all too orthodox? I dunno.
Suggestions please?
The good stuff is gonna be underground and stay underground so record companies can't rape it.
For me, my three SOLO heroes will always be: LOU REED, MORRISSEY, JOHNNY THUNDERS
Bargain bin gold, favorite bands, concerts, photos, and my record collection: All Good Music
Um, okay, and don't get me wrong, but are those your solo heroes on their own merit or "just" because the bands they came out of were so great? I like Lou Reed only in perspective of his V.U. years (and so a lot of Reed solo I don't like), same with Morrissey (although I like a lot more of his records than Lou's).mg196 wrote:For me, my three SOLO heroes will always be: LOU REED, MORRISSEY, JOHNNY THUNDERS
-
Sunshine
I don't really know what I can tell you. Music is great, overall but no religion. I think the 60s and 70s were the best time in rockmusic. Everybody could play what he wanted to play, cause eveything was new. And the record companies didn't have such an influence as they became in the late 70s, beginning 80s.
1.
Lou Reed is my absolut favourite, cause it's the sound he produced but I dont Like Lou since he has changed his style 1983 (except the 1989 produced LP "New York"). Listen to 'Temporary Thing' at the Orpheum 1976 and you will know what I mean. Everybody who loves Lous music I think it has to do with the own life in some parts, his lyrics are very deep-going and his voice is warm. It's a rarity when Lou is smiling or laughing. I have hundrets of pictures of him but only a few where he's smiling. Deep inside I think he's a sad man and so is his music. But I love it.
2.
VU with Doug Yule. The music is more harmonic than it was with John Cale. Cale was more experimental than Lou. The silent side of Lou is coming better out in this periode. And everybody loves the till now unreleased 'Matrix' Tapes. How would they sound with Cale?
3.
Not to forget the rest of the underground music like 'May Blitz', 'Morly Grey', Irish Coffee (all from the early 70s) and i really love the christian Rockmusic of the late 60s, early 70s. Even VU was looking for "Jesus". Hope the members found him.
But there are so many groups I like, I can't name them here all. Not to forget Franky Boy Zappa or Jimi Hendrix. But the most important thing is, that music should always be in peace.
PS: hope there are not too many mistakes im my little english.
Chris
1.
Lou Reed is my absolut favourite, cause it's the sound he produced but I dont Like Lou since he has changed his style 1983 (except the 1989 produced LP "New York"). Listen to 'Temporary Thing' at the Orpheum 1976 and you will know what I mean. Everybody who loves Lous music I think it has to do with the own life in some parts, his lyrics are very deep-going and his voice is warm. It's a rarity when Lou is smiling or laughing. I have hundrets of pictures of him but only a few where he's smiling. Deep inside I think he's a sad man and so is his music. But I love it.
2.
VU with Doug Yule. The music is more harmonic than it was with John Cale. Cale was more experimental than Lou. The silent side of Lou is coming better out in this periode. And everybody loves the till now unreleased 'Matrix' Tapes. How would they sound with Cale?
3.
Not to forget the rest of the underground music like 'May Blitz', 'Morly Grey', Irish Coffee (all from the early 70s) and i really love the christian Rockmusic of the late 60s, early 70s. Even VU was looking for "Jesus". Hope the members found him.
But there are so many groups I like, I can't name them here all. Not to forget Franky Boy Zappa or Jimi Hendrix. But the most important thing is, that music should always be in peace.
PS: hope there are not too many mistakes im my little english.
Chris
Yo Arjan,arjan wrote:Um, okay, and don't get me wrong, but are those your solo heroes on their own merit or "just" because the bands they came out of were so great? I like Lou Reed only in perspective of his V.U. years (and so a lot of Reed solo I don't like), same with Morrissey (although I like a lot more of his records than Lou's).mg196 wrote:For me, my three SOLO heroes will always be: LOU REED, MORRISSEY, JOHNNY THUNDERS
I like them based purely on their solo output...the bands they came from just happens to be a bonus. I think Vauxhall & I and Berlin are better albums than anything the Smiths or the VU put out. And with Johnny, my fave NY Dolls song is Chatterbox (Thunders only "solo" performance while with 'em).
I listen to each of those guys MUCH more than their old bands. Although Reed's solo output is undigestible after the Blue Mask!
Bargain bin gold, favorite bands, concerts, photos, and my record collection: All Good Music