The Velvet Forum

There's 2 tracks from the Gymnasium on Peel Slowly and See and that led me to believe UMG have had the whole gig at least since then. But Cale could of course have hidden the rest of the tracks under his bed until years later. There's a rumour that he provided the bootleggers with the recording, and since the official version only came out after the bootleg (but not so long after?) my theory is that Cale wanted it released, UMG or Lou didn't, and so it was only when it was already out there unofficially that they caved in.

But fair point, could very well be that someone in the band didn't want it out there earlier (didn't Lou at some point say he didn't want more rare VU to come out?).

Cale supposedly has more Gymnasium recordings, including a version of Walk it and talk it. The only track in circulation though is the other verison of GIFIL.

MartinVU wrote: ↑15 Sep 2024 20:20 There's 2 tracks from the Gymnasium on Peel Slowly and See and that led me to believe UMG have had the whole gig at least since then. But Cale could of course have hidden the rest of the tracks under his bed until years later. There's a rumour that he provided the bootleggers with the recording, and since the official version only came out after the bootleg (but not so long after?) my theory is that Cale wanted it released, UMG or Lou didn't, and so it was only when it was already out there unofficially that they caved in.

But fair point, could very well be that someone in the band didn't want it out there earlier (didn't Lou at some point say he didn't want more rare VU to come out?).

Cale supposedly has more Gymnasium recordings, including a version of Walk it and talk it. The only track in circulation though is the other verison of GIFIL.

That’s true - I’d forgotten about PSAS box. Also worth remembering that Cale had used an edited version of Booker T on his Paris S’Evielle soundtrack album in 1991. So he must have had a digitised version of the tape since at least then. But I’m pretty sure UMG can’t release stuff without the band signing off on the material. Is possible that the leaked and bootleggedcopy of Gymnasium came from another person in the loop aside from Cale himself. Something also happened when Cale gave his whole box of tapes to Tony Conrad to digitise when TOE were releasing their solo stuff and maybe the Dream Syndicate live volume 1 CD. Cale had left the VU tapes he had in that box. Conrad said he did not digitise the VU tapes but I suspect he did as he is known to have offered a copy of something to one of his student. And at that point Cale asked for the box of tapes back to ‘protect Conrad from Lou’s lawyers’. I can’t help thinking that since then and since the Gymnasium leak Cale has withdrawn his interest in any more of the old material being released. He has been dismissive of the New York in the 60s set and the Cale-mix of the Stooges debut.

Someone here claimed to have the Gymnasium performance with Walk It Talk It. Could he have been one of Conrad’s students? Pure speculation on my part.

Ridiculous that this stuff isn't already out already, why do they have to be such refuseniks? Maybe Laurie Anderson will be mire permissive about allowing things to be released. There is so little good live material from the Cale years, when IMO they were more interesting musically. Ditto that Klimek person who had the good sense to record them at La Cave, I remember reading he has more that is unreleased.

MartinVU wrote: ↑15 Sep 2024 20:20 There's 2 tracks from the Gymnasium on Peel Slowly and See and that led me to believe UMG have had the whole gig at least since then. But Cale could of course have hidden the rest of the tracks under his bed until years later. There's a rumour that he provided the bootleggers with the recording, and since the official version only came out after the bootleg (but not so long after?) my theory is that Cale wanted it released, UMG or Lou didn't, and so it was only when it was already out there unofficially that they caved in.

There's that fragment of the Gymnasium Sister Ray as an unlisted track on the Ostrich/Hilltop bootleg, which came out in 1997 according to Olivier's site, so some bootlegger(s) had that then.

searchin4mymainline wrote: ↑16 Sep 2024 14:38

MartinVU wrote: ↑15 Sep 2024 20:20 There's 2 tracks from the Gymnasium on Peel Slowly and See and that led me to believe UMG have had the whole gig at least since then. But Cale could of course have hidden the rest of the tracks under his bed until years later. There's a rumour that he provided the bootleggers with the recording, and since the official version only came out after the bootleg (but not so long after?) my theory is that Cale wanted it released, UMG or Lou didn't, and so it was only when it was already out there unofficially that they caved in.

There's that fragment of the Gymnasium Sister Ray as an unlisted track on the Ostrich/Hilltop bootleg, which came out in 1997 according to Olivier's site, so some bootlegger(s) had that then.

I went back to my original Ostrich/Hilltop CD extracted Sister Ray and cut down the track.
Here is the Sister Ray fragment around 42 secs - Gymnasium April 1967 - if anyone's interested..

https://filetransfer.io/data-package/sgCtnASy#link

Thanks a lot.

Back to Mo Light/Mo Heat, if anybody cares, there's a copy on Discogs now, although too expensive for me.

When I last saw her in the 90s before the reunion when she was companied by Morrison in my hometown of Liverpool there was a real camera crew and everything tho' I've yet to see any of that surface…

Director told me (I was the photographer) that it was for the upcoming channel for peel slowly and see night in the UK but
Anyone have any info on this greatly appreciated

Hey it’s super frustrating that these recordings aren’t out yet. Cale had some amazing stuff, and UMG and Lou should just let it go already. Maybe we need to push a bit harder for these archives to be released because fans totally deserve better!

back to ML/MH: seems like it's been re-pressed, no idea where it might be for sale, but saw this:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/4786136 ... 876007239/