3rd Album Deluxe - Bill Levenson drops a hint?

[lurid]

This is the thread from here when Elliott Murphy listed his acetates on Ebay.

http://www.velvetforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=883

this is the acetate in question

Think someone here later posted pictures of them?

[simonm]

here is (part of) Untergerger's take on the Matrix tapes - he evidently interviewed Peter Abrams:

"Those four hours of half-inch, four-track tape amount to 42 songs, including versions of a few tunes that don?t appear on 1969 Velvet Underground Live, among them three takes of ?There She Goes Again,? two each of ?Venus In Furs? and ?After Hours,? and one apiece of ?The Black Angel?s Death Song,? ?I?m Set Free,? and ?Sister Ray.? There are also additional, as-yet unreleased versions of most of the songs that do make it onto the LP, including no less than four takes of ?Heroin.? According to the notes of one listener who has heard the tapes, most of these 42 unissued tracks fall into the good-to-excellent category; some are great and inspired, and there are only a few weak or flawed performances.

Two-to-three minute excerpts of nine of these songs and a seven-minute segment of ?Sister Ray? (all of which start at the beginning, and fade out mid-performance) have since leaked into circulation and verify that the sound quality on these recordings is outstanding, and in fact notably ? if not hugely ? superior to the tapes used for 1969 Velvet Underground Live. Of even more interest is the fact that the performances themselves are good-to-superb. They include a version of the rarely heard ?There She Goes Again? with more jagged rhythm-guitar than is heard on the studio cut; ?I?m Set Free? with a magnificent Lou Reed lead vocal; a really slow ?I?m Waiting For The Man? with curling, bluesy guitar-riffs and a cool interjection of ominous chords right after the white boy is asked what he?s doing uptown; and a version of ?Sister Ray? that starts off slow and bluesy but just keeps accelerating in rhythm and intensity until the tape cruelly cuts off. The other excerpts ? ?Ocean,? ?Some Kinda Love? (introduced as ?an alcoholic?s dream?), ?The Black Angel?s Death Song,? ?After Hours,? and two versions of ?Venus In Furs? ? aren?t quite as novel, but will likewise make the Velvet Underground fan yearn for the day when the tapes can be released."

http://www.richieunterberger.com/vuexc10.html

[rnranimal]

here is (part of) Untergerger's take on the Matrix tapes - he evidently interviewed Peter Abrams:

"Those four hours of half-inch, four-track tape amount to 42 songs, including versions of a few tunes that don?t appear on 1969 Velvet Underground Live, among them three takes of ?There She Goes Again,? two each of ?Venus In Furs? and ?After Hours,? and one apiece of ?The Black Angel?s Death Song,? ?I?m Set Free,? and ?Sister Ray.? There are also additional, as-yet unreleased versions of most of the songs that do make it onto the LP, including no less than four takes of ?Heroin.? According to the notes of one listener who has heard the tapes, most of these 42 unissued tracks fall into the good-to-excellent category; some are great and inspired, and there are only a few weak or flawed performances.

Two-to-three minute excerpts of nine of these songs and a seven-minute segment of ?Sister Ray? (all of which start at the beginning, and fade out mid-performance) have since leaked into circulation and verify that the sound quality on these recordings is outstanding, and in fact notably ? if not hugely ? superior to the tapes used for 1969 Velvet Underground Live. Of even more interest is the fact that the performances themselves are good-to-superb. They include a version of the rarely heard ?There She Goes Again? with more jagged rhythm-guitar than is heard on the studio cut; ?I?m Set Free? with a magnificent Lou Reed lead vocal; a really slow ?I?m Waiting For The Man? with curling, bluesy guitar-riffs and a cool interjection of ominous chords right after the white boy is asked what he?s doing uptown; and a version of ?Sister Ray? that starts off slow and bluesy but just keeps accelerating in rhythm and intensity until the tape cruelly cuts off. The other excerpts ? ?Ocean,? ?Some Kinda Love? (introduced as ?an alcoholic?s dream?), ?The Black Angel?s Death Song,? ?After Hours,? and two versions of ?Venus In Furs? ? aren?t quite as novel, but will likewise make the Velvet Underground fan yearn for the day when the tapes can be released."

http://www.richieunterberger.com/vuexc10.html

I've heard speculation that "Sister Ray" is incomplete on Abram's tapes, because it's 38 minutes and somewhere it has been stated his tapes are of 30 minute length. But I don't think the quote above is referring to what's on the actual tape and is rather discussing the incomplete samples that had leaked.

[searchin4mymainline]

I've heard speculation that "Sister Ray" is incomplete on Abram's tapes, because it's 38 minutes and somewhere it has been stated his tapes are of 30 minute length. But I don't think the quote above is referring to what's on the actual tape and is rather discussing the incomplete samples that had leaked.

Yes I agree that that is the likely interpretation of that quote.

As far as the point about pitch difference/tape speed goes, I don't think it's going to be sufficient to fit the whole Quine 38 minutes into 30, is it?

[rnranimal]

I've heard speculation that "Sister Ray" is incomplete on Abram's tapes, because it's 38 minutes and somewhere it has been stated his tapes are of 30 minute length. But I don't think the quote above is referring to what's on the actual tape and is rather discussing the incomplete samples that had leaked.

Yes I agree that that is the likely interpretation of that quote.

As far as the point about pitch difference/tape speed goes, I don't think it's going to be sufficient to fit the whole Quine 38 minutes into 30, is it?

Not unless it was transferred at a slower speed for the purpose to fit it all. It would then need to be played back faster for the right pitch. A speed difference like this would be major and isn't something that could happen by accident, though.

I have never seen the quote (or who actually said it) about the 30 minute tapes, so maybe it's not accurate. It's also possible the complete "Sister Ray" is spread over 2 tapes. Since Abram was re-transferring these to compile his favorite 4 hours, it's possible he once had the full "Sister Ray" and left overlap when he re-transfered it to the 30 minute tapes. Allowing for it to be seamlessly edited back together. That would assume he used longer tapes for recording the shows originally.

[simonm]

Re the SR - when I read the article I already had the suggestion of it being cut short, so I interpreted it wrong - partly because he says the 'tape cuts out' rather than the track fades out.

[rnranimal]

Re the SR - when I read the article I already had the suggestion of it being cut short, so I interpreted it wrong - partly because he says the 'tape cuts out' rather than the track fades out.

I thought the same thing at first, because of the "tape" mention.

Even if "Sister Ray" is incomplete, I hope they include it.

[OverYou]

FYI a Reel to Reel tape running at 15 IPS had around 30mins recording capacity. So the actual recorded performance may have been cut off.

[bobbydriver]

Would people prefer an incomplete soundboard of Sister Ray or the soundboard section with the remaining ~8 minutes of the song patched in from Quine's tape?

[rnranimal]

Would people prefer an incomplete soundboard of Sister Ray or the soundboard section with the remaining ~8 minutes of the song patched in from Quine's tape?

I would absolutely prefer an incomplete soundboard over a patch job. The two are night and day sound quality-wise, it would jarring.

Also, we aren't sure it's a matter of the last eight minutes being cut off. Maybe it's missing a piece of the middle during a tape change? I certainly wouldn't want a crappy audience recording dropped into the middle of a soundboard.

This is assuming it's incomplete. Are we sure he didn't use a longer tape length? Or record the shows at 7 1/2 ips? Or maybe as he became familiar with their sets, he knew to do so just for "Sister Ray"?