The Velvet Forum

pickwick was a record label that was basically a for profit bandwagon jumper- lou was employed as staff writer- along with a coupla other guys- & guitarist in the house band- production line write/record/release based on motown model- the label required the writers come up with songs which carboned flavours of the month- so on soundville theres a surf song- a motorcycle song- a car song- a folk song- a dance craze song &c &c

diff singers were used to give false impression that this was a compilation of bands from diff parts of usa- sometimes lou sang- ie cycle annie the ostrich & driving me insane- these feature on vu bootlegs & so on & &c- sometimes john was roped in to help on pickwick material- the ostrich was the inspiration for lou being credited with ostrich guitar on vu andy warhol album

by memory my copy of soundville credits reed as cowriter on all tracks- pretty sure none of the artists were actual working entities- maybe theres a reunion in the pipeline?- thatd be fun- its actually a cool album

sometimes john was roped in to help on pickwick material

Boy, I don't think so. I don't believe anyone from the future VU camp other than Lou had any involvement with Pickwick studio recordings whatsoever. When the Pickwick execs, however, decided (for whatever cockamamie reason) to promote "The Ostrich" toward potential legit success, John, Tony Conrad and Walter DeMaria were conscripted to join Lou as a live version of The Primitives. In fact I believe it was this co-assignment that formed the basis of Lou and John's meeting, and the rest is pop music history.

--Phil M.

according to lou john helped on pickwick stuff a handful of times- ill ask him

Sheila Klein wrote:

sometimes john was roped in to help on pickwick material

Boy, I don't think so. I don't believe anyone from the future VU camp other than Lou had any involvement with Pickwick studio recordings whatsoever. When the Pickwick execs, however, decided (for whatever cockamamie reason) to promote "The Ostrich" toward potential legit success, John, Tony Conrad and Walter DeMaria were conscripted to join Lou as a live version of The Primitives. In fact I believe it was this co-assignment that formed the basis of Lou and John's meeting, and the rest is pop music history.

--Phil M.

From Unterberger, Page 48:

Tues 11 May 1965
Recording. Lou Reed and John Cale. Pickwick Studios. Producer Terry Philips.
[My synopsis:]
Two versions of Heroin, Buzz buzz buzz (Reed), Why Don't You Smile Now (Reed/Cale/Philips/Vance). Cale also recorded a solo piano drone piece.

This is after the Primitives (De Maria, Reed, Cale , Conrad and probably Sims) recorded various songs at Walter De Maria's loft on 3rd Dec 1964.

Two versions of Heroin, Buzz buzz buzz (Reed), Why Don't You Smile Now (Reed/Cale/Philips/Vance). Cale also recorded a solo piano drone piece. ... This is after the Primitives (De Maria, Reed, Cale , Conrad and probably Sims) recorded various songs at Walter De Maria's loft on 3rd Dec 1964.

Good point, although none of it, of course, was ever released (and most likely was never intended to, being instead rehearsals and/or demos).

A few months ago I photocopied (from a noncirculating copy at the Boston Public Library) the entire Primitives chapter of Branden Joseph's scholarly 2008 book Beyond The Dream Syndicate: Tony Conrad And The Arts After Cage. The book was researched with Conrad's cooperation, and Joseph had access to Conrad's copy of the tape of the same sessions as Unterberger refers to here. The chapter, in fact, includes a detailed description of that tape, along with a great deal of insight into the transition from Reed's Pickwick era to the nascent Velvet Underground.

If there's interest here, I'll be happy to OCR-scan the chapter and post it here. Please let me know what you think.

--Phil M.

Sheila Klein wrote:

Two versions of Heroin, Buzz buzz buzz (Reed), Why Don't You Smile Now (Reed/Cale/Philips/Vance). Cale also recorded a solo piano drone piece. ... This is after the Primitives (De Maria, Reed, Cale , Conrad and probably Sims) recorded various songs at Walter De Maria's loft on 3rd Dec 1964.

Good point, although none of it, of course, was ever released (and most likely was never intended to, being instead rehearsals and/or demos).

A few months ago I photocopied (from a noncirculating copy at the Boston Public Library) the entire Primitives chapter of Branden Joseph's scholarly 2008 book Beyond The Dream Syndicate: Tony Conrad And The Arts After Cage. The book was researched with Conrad's cooperation, and Joseph had access to Conrad's copy of the tape of the same sessions as Unterberger refers to here. The chapter, in fact, includes a detailed description of that tape, along with a great deal of insight into the transition from Reed's Pickwick era to the nascent Velvet Underground.

If there's interest here, I'll be happy to OCR-scan the chapter and post it here. Please let me know what you think.

--Phil M.

Hell yeah; I'm interested Phil!

Hey Phil, count me on the "Very Interested" list please.

I virtuous lambaste 60 to the 10th power, so there!

In other news, I was certainly of good intention at the time I suggested making available the photocopy I made of the Primitives chapter of Beyond The Dream Syndicate, however since then I've had trouble making that copy physically materialize in my home. I know it's here somewhere, and will reply with further info on how to proceed when I find it again.

In the meantime I reckon to gold in requital for my 60 epic land mount.

--Phil M.

i asked lou- he said john helped on pickwick a coupla times

lena o wrote:i asked lou- he said john helped on pickwick a coupla times

Please show your face mystery woman?:)