The Velvet Forum

iaredatsun wrote:But I have one real complaint and that is the 1 bar of vocal noise in One Of These Days at 2:30. Why did they leave that in?

Oversights or a deliberate decision not to cut anything in order to redress the balance after all the criticisms of the '85 mixes?

This can't be the reason - mixing is always a process of leaving things out. Just including everything is not doing a mix, it's forgetting to mix it, and that's what the OOTD thing sounds like.

I'm about to listen to the first three discs, but I'm not expecting much more than what I've experienced before. I was very happy with the mid-nineties issues of the two mixes. I'm not impressed with them trying to sell the mono as a vintage mix, though. I know that a lot of records in the very late sixties/early seventies were given the 'fake mono' treatment (including some of the final Beatles albums, from memory), but it seems this mix was never released in any form.

ETA: I know it sounds like I'm being negative. I think overall this is a stunning release of one of my favourite records ever. It's just in our nature to point out the minor problems, rather than celebrate the positives, which feel like they 'go without saying'. I'm going to do a proper review, which will be overwhelmingly positive, once I've absorbed it all.

Edit again: What I've heard from the Closet and Valentin mix sounds fantastic - everything good has been maximised. The mono mix is a waste of time.

Wow. This set is fantastic. Skipped the mono and closet mixes but the Valentin mix, the "fourth album" and the live content is fantastic.

DavidH wrote:

iaredatsun wrote:But I have one real complaint and that is the 1 bar of vocal noise in One Of These Days at 2:30. Why did they leave that in?

Oversights or a deliberate decision not to cut anything in order to redress the balance after all the criticisms of the '85 mixes?

This can't be the reason - mixing is always a process of leaving things out. Just including everything is not doing a mix, it's forgetting to mix it, and that's what the OOTD thing sounds like.

I don?t think that they have forgottten to mix it, it?s clearly deliberate.

The narrative is that it was just a bunch of demos, but in the 80?s they tried to polish it all up and make it sound like a lost 4th album.

So yeah, call it re-dressing the balance ? we now have the two ends of the spectrum. The raw demos and the polished remixes.

With this new boxset - If they?d gone for somewhere in the middle, and applied more selective editing to the mix then I think that would have been a bad thing and a bit of a cop-out. It?s far more interesting to hear them in their original state surely?

bobbydriver wrote:I don?t think that they have forgottten to mix it, it?s clearly deliberate.

The narrative is that it was just a bunch of demos, but in the 80?s they tried to polish it all up and make it sound like a lost 4th album.

So yeah, call it re-dressing the balance ? we now have the two ends of the spectrum. The raw demos and the polished remixes.

Yeah, think so too. What we have is a bunch of demos, with some (intentional?) flaws. As I see it, the thinking process back in the 80s was somewhere along the lines of: "We have a bunch of not-too-bad sounding demos here, some of them even in multi-track. Since VU studio recordings are relatively simple with not too many overdubs, why not bring the demos up to the standards of the VU studio recordings with some editing and 80s studio wizardry?" Which I can understand - only regret I have is that it should happen in the 80s, the era of big production effects (flange, reverb etc.)

bobbydriver wrote:With this new boxset - If they?d gone for somewhere in the middle, and applied more selective editing to the mix then I think that would have been a bad thing and a bit of a cop-out. It?s far more interesting to hear them in their original state surely?

Yes, as well as, I'd say. Now we have two polar opposites: polished 80s studio approximations and 2014 warts-and-all versions, sympathetically mixed but with some stuff in best edited. I'd like to have a listenable in-between version without the noise in One of These Days, the backward counting in I Can't Stand It and all of the falling-downs in She's My Best Friend.


Some additional observations: is it me or is the mix of the demos and live versions light on Yule? Less prominent bass and backing vocals?

IIRC correctly, both Sterling and Maureen talked of the demos as something to give MGM to get out of the contract but not neccessarily usable. If I were in a band leaving the label, I would use any studio time given to run through songs and arrangements, then create demos (and take them away on acetate) for future reference. If I really hated the label, I'd make sure the songs were not finished enough to be issued without my consent/control, either. This could explain why some songs have no vocals, or no usable finished vocals, or just goofy stuff as in I Can't Stand It's backward counting or the falling-downs.

Lastly: In Coney Island Steeplechase, is it a bad/not strong enough telephone effect on Lou's vocals or is he just hoarse/through a distorting microphone?

Caridad Rodriguez wrote: Lastly: In Coney Island Steeplechase, is it a bad/not strong enough telephone effect on Lou's vocals or is he just hoarse/through a distorting microphone?

not sure about anyone else's view but I hated that artificial vocal effect on Another View - this version is so much better

lurid wrote:

Caridad Rodriguez wrote: Lastly: In Coney Island Steeplechase, is it a bad/not strong enough telephone effect on Lou's vocals or is he just hoarse/through a distorting microphone?

not sure about anyone else's view but I hated that artificial vocal effect on Another View - this version is so much better

I must be one of the very few who liked it. I wonder - was it an original effect put in place in 1969? In which case they should have, technically, historically, left it in.

peppergomez wrote:the "fourth album" and the live content is fantastic.

Second that.

I really like the pop-but-furious take on "There She Goes Again", they sound like The Wedding Present!

iaredatsun wrote:I must be one of the very few who liked it. I wonder - was it an original effect put in place in 1969? In which case they should have, technically, historically, left it in.

No, I liked it as well. Not sure about 1969, the effect is now less but still there is some trace. Was it a failed attempt at "telephone" back in '69 that they tried to mask or enhance in 1986? Or even a faulty mic they needed to cover up? Still, the end result was to my liking.

Caridad Rodriguez wrote: No, I liked it as well. Not sure about 1969, the effect is now less but still there is some trace. Was it a failed attempt at "telephone" back in '69 that they tried to mask or enhance in 1986? Or even a faulty mic they needed to cover up? Still, the end result was to my liking.

If it was done on '69, interesting that they could go back to the original. Means they must have kept all multitracks. And means they chose to use it in '85.

I always thought Coney Island Steeplechase was where The Strokes got their sound.

Though I do prefer the new version.


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