'Velvet Underground 1966' boot CD

[Mark]

Mark, I don't understand what you mean by CD track timings. They are not the same at any point. If you mean that the actual lengths of the song performances are the same then that equally supports the theory that they are both from the same digitised source. [/url]

Apologies, I was off the mark with that one then. Not quite sure where I got that idea from.

If UMG don't have access to the tape or a digital version of it then what would they be doing releasing it? I just can't see them having to resort to using a bootleg. And would that be legal? They must have permission from the tape owner and you would think access to the best version.

It'd be totally legal. The Velvets were under contract to Verve (ie ultimately, Universal) at the time the recording was made, and it's been distributed so widely since then that if the original tapers were to lay claim to it Universal could just argue that it's effectively in the public domain.

Bootleg recordings get used by major labels on archive releases all the time. It's nothing out of the ordinary at all.

With regards to the recordings not having been remastered since PSAS, the dynamics of the PSAS Melody Laughter are different - with the new version having better local dynamics (when seen as a wave form) and also a different frequency response overall (see below). Supports the idea that the tape was remastered for the 45th anniversary set.

PSAS

45th

You'll have to explain to me what those diagrams mean. To my untutored eye it just looks like the 45th anniv version is louder!

Anyway - I've found email addresses for Doug Snyder and Dick Felton (the tapers) so maybe they'll be willing to shed some light.

[Mark]

You can see from every spectral analysis/waveform/graph that's been put up in this thread that the 45th version is mastered at a lower volume, with no clipping unlike move back

The 2006 master of Move Back has clipping and I assume that's what's been used for analysis here. The 1997 original doesn't (I don't think).

[Mark]

And thanks Schnittstelle for posting that Max's link. Extraordinary. How do labels manage to miss these things?!

The corrected tracks sound great. Now if it was just possible to get rid of that annoying tape reel squeak...

[Kill Mick]

Is anybody inclined to attempt a speed corrected version of '1966'? I have neither the technology nor the know how I'm afraid.

[Mark]

Yes, I'm going to give it a go when I get chance - sometime in the next week or so hopefully.

[nick257]

Yes the Max's deluxe version sounds too fast to me, that's why I dont listen to it. Thanks for the pointer to the speed corrected vinyl..........

Someone did a speed correction of the deluxe CDs. CD1 was slowed down by 4.1% and CD2 by 2.3% which made them sound right.

Thanks very much for this - Ill try it

[lurid]

Just my tuppence-worth. I first got a copy of the Valleydale Ballroom recording back in 1984. It was on 2 x C60 cassettes, ran too slow, and you could actually hear a dog barking in the background towards the end of "I'm Waiting For The Man". There were probably also other bits missing/edits - I've never sat down and compared it with any of the more recent "complete" versions. A couple of years later I found someone with a variable speed cassette deck and he sped it up by ear - it then all fitted onto a C90. I traded this copy with many other fans. So even back then there were multiple versions of the tape in circulation. I don't think even the original master tape was a hi-fi experience of any kind, so there's going to be a limit to what anyone can do to improve it. You don't get anything for nothing and you can't put back what wasn't there in the first place.

I'm just so glad we have it at all.This single recording represents well over half of all of the VU live audio available from 1966. Thank you Dick Felton!

[iaredatsun]

It'd be totally legal. The Velvets were under contract to Verve (ie ultimately, Universal) at the time the recording was made, and it's been distributed so widely since then that if the original tapers were to lay claim to it Universal could just argue that it's effectively in the public domain.

You'll have to explain to me what those diagrams mean. To my untutored eye it just looks like the 45th anniv version is louder!

Anyway - I've found email addresses for Doug Snyder and Dick Felton (the tapers) so maybe they'll be willing to shed some light.

I see. I assumed that the tapers owned the mechanical copyright.

Mark, it is louder and has more dynamic range between quiet and loud. But that diagram shows the distribution of frequencies and how the top end was filtered out or rolled off on the PSAS.

> Doug Snyder and Dick Felton
Good idea! It'd be great to get some inside stories on the tape and their relationship with the 1966 bootleggers, the VU Inc and UMG. Look forward to hearing what you can find out.

[Mark]

Well, I've made contact with Dick Felton - it seems the master is in the hands of Doug Snyder these days. Doug is the guy who put out Move Back. Dick had no involvement in putting together the 45th set and doesn't know where they got the tape from - but speculates that it might be from the first-generation copy that he handed to Warhol when he visited the Factory in 1967.

Quite aside from all this geekiness, Dick seems like a good guy with some fascinating recollections. I'm currently trying to prevail upon him to post here.

If anyone has a definitive answer about the Columbus source (other than those who put the 45th set together for Universal, of course) it will be Doug Snyder. Hopefully I'll hear from him soon.

[schnittstelle]

It would be great to see Dick Felton post here!