The Velvet Forum

Because the three main people in the band had left!
As I've said before, it would be like George and Ringo deciding to call themselves "The Beatles" - it wouldn't just be "a new phase" of the group... it would be the group without it's primary members - in fact, not the group at all.

To me, the third album is still the V.U., but "Loaded" is nothing more than a mediocre Lou Reed album, with a pickup band.

dsulpy wrote:Because the three main people in the band had left!

I'm interested to hear who the third main person is. Don't tell me it's Nico.

dsulpy wrote:To me, the third album is still the V.U., but "Loaded" is nothing more than a mediocre Lou Reed album, with a pickup band.

Interesting you should say that. Actually, for me it's the other way 'round. The Velvet Underground is a pure Reed solo album with backing band and no opposition/collaboration in any way. It's all Lou's way. And so it's pretty boring. With Loaded, for better or worse, Yule took up the role Cale used to have in the field of arranging songs etc., only from a different, more mainstream point of view.

We're getting rather sidetracked here I think... the point of this thread was to see if there was anything to be found out about these two particular underdocumented phases of the VU's history. The politics of what does and doesn't constitute The Velvet Underground is a valid discussion in itself, but is there any way it could be taken into a separate thread?

Mark wrote:the point of this thread was to see if there was anything to be found out about these two particular underdocumented phases of the VU's history

You're right of course (and I always jump to the bait of the when-did-The-VU-end discussion ), but it's inseperable from the second phase I mentioned, I'm afraid. I'm just glad we don't have this type of discussion re. the pre-Maureen lineup!

Arjan wrote:Interesting you should say that. Actually, for me it's the other way 'round. The Velvet Underground is a pure Reed solo album with backing band and no opposition/collaboration in any way. It's all Lou's way. And so it's pretty boring. With Loaded, for better or worse, Yule took up the role Cale used to have in the field of arranging songs etc., only from a different, more mainstream point of view.

I can see why you say that. The difference for me is Moe's drumming, which is the heart of the band (and, of course, missing from "Loaded"). I guess the idea of Yule stepping into Cale's shoes is so laughable than I never gave it much thought - I mean, on one hand we have Cale - one of the most creative people ever to participate in a rock and roll band - on the other hand, we have Yule, who's nothing more than a mildly talented backup player, who was pushed to center stage when Lou Reed's voice blew out.

HUH?
There was a (very reasonable) suggestion that we take the "When did the V.U. End?" topic to it's own thread. To that end, I started a thread on that subject with the above post. Someone (a mod, I presume) decided to delete that, and put my last post back HERE.... exactly where I DIDN'T want it. To quote the guys... What Goes On?

dsulpy wrote:HUH?

I think it might well have something to do with the fact that you didn't actually discuss the end of the Velvets, but rather the relative merits of the last two studio albums and the arranging talents of Cale vs. those of Yule, which deserves a separate thread all of its own

But you and other "debaters on the other team" avoided replying to my statement about what-if-the-latterday-Velvets did release a worthwile album! Any thoughts about that?

dsulpy wrote:To me, the third album is still the V.U., but "Loaded" is nothing more than a mediocre Lou Reed album, with a pickup band.

Is it just me or does Sterling have some amazing guitar lines on Loaded? Pretty good for a "pickup band" guitarist. Wasn't he in the Tots?

arjan wrote:Actually, for me it's the other way 'round. The Velvet Underground is a pure Reed solo album with backing band and no opposition/collaboration in any way. It's all Lou's way. And so it's pretty boring. With Loaded, for better or worse, Yule took up the role Cale used to have in the field of arranging songs etc., only from a different, more mainstream point of view.

Again, what about Sterling?!

Overall, I think these threads debating the merits of VU mk. I,II,III etc, are ridiculous. I love seeing people throw around Dougie's name as if he was just some loser in the band, but not nearly as much as how so many MORE people seem to forget about Sterling's contributions altogether. I am not even going to state which is MY fave version of the band, because there are songs I enjoy and others I turn off that were recorded by each version!

How can people deride Loaded for being "Mainstream?" That is what the band was trying to accomplish!! Sterling was proud of it!

Basically, there is a reason that Squeeze has not been officially rereleased in ANY form for more than 30 years. Can you guess what that reason is?! (That is a rhetorical question - do not answer)

I am done with this thread and topic for good! I feel like I am in Junior High School listening to people bicker about their favorite cartoon characters!!!

'dougie' is an idiot and a leech, so was sesnick.
the velvets ended when cale was booted.
the grey album is a good lou solo album.
loaded is a big pile of shit, not even a decent lou solo album.
there you have it.

mg196 wrote:Is it just me or does Sterling have some amazing guitar lines on Loaded? Pretty good for a "pickup band" guitarist.

Just for the record: be careful what guitar lines you attribute to Sterling on Loaded because they may well be Doug's. To my knowledge, (only) these are Sterling's (not counting "regular" rhythm guitar work):

• * The break in "Who Loves the Sun"
  * (perhaps) the smooth line in "Rock and Roll" (but as all the other lead work here is Doug's, this may also be his)
  * His trademark interwoven guitar work with Lou on "New Age" (but it's all but buried beneath all the Doug overdubs)
  * (perhaps) the solo in "I Found a Reason"
  * Fills on "Ocean" (great! why wasn't this on Loaded?!)

All other leads and fills are by Doug. Lou takes no solos on Loaded unless the one on "I Found a Reason" is his.

mg196 wrote:Wasn't he in the Tots?

Urgh don't get me started about them.