Lamenting Lack of VU Releases...

[django70]

....etc,etc.... By the way MJG, you said about Lou hating his past. You know I love his solo work as well as you do. But I don't think he really has ever gotten over the fact that his real claim on history was being part of a group. Man, I think that just burns him...

Django. Lot's of good points in there. And I agree the last statement ? it always seem to be the most likely truth behind it all. I don't think he has ever had the critical acclaim he wanted for any of his solo work.

Well, it is nice to see Berlin finally get it's rightful due as a career milestone. And although not in a mainstream sense, I would have to say that MMM has settled in very nicely as a touchstone for everyone from Sonic Youth to Phillip Glass. If you get the chance to hear the Zeitkratzer Metal Machine Music live performance with Lou. It is a lot of fun. Now what I am waiting for is the resurgence of "Sally Can't Dance". Seriously, call it a guilty pleasure, but I really like that album.

[Kill Mick]

Another comparison here is with The Doors back catalogue. Once you get past the 'Best Of' compilations that seem to be in every student flat, their fanbase can't be much bigger than the VUs (if it isat all), and yet Bright Midnight seem to put out an archive live release every few months. If it still pays the remaining band members to put stuff out that way, surely there'd be money in a VU equivelant?

[lurid]

Just a few odd thoughts:

Whatever you think of Heylin ( I know he pissed off a few people when he interviewed for "From The Velvets To The Voidoids"), he did seem to have a pretty accurate description of songs from that show years before we heard them, so I'm inclined to believe he heard it. For years Cale has also stated that "Walk And Talk It" was performed "With A Good Guitar Sound" at that show. I would gladly have my tubes tied to hear this, I thought the band sounds fucking great on this show.

I was in contact with Mr Heylin in the 1990s and even then he had access to VU material which was not available anywhere else.

The "Seattle" soundboard tape is mentioned briefly on Olivier's site (The Trolley Club). Doesn't sound as if the complete show was recorded. But I'd still love to hear it, ditto the presumed Bill Graham/Fillmore 66 recordings.

[velvetfan]

a bit off track, but for those who don't have the 4 "Ultra Rare Trax" cd's, here is a link to d/l. enjoy
http://gratefulbreed.blogspot.com/2011/ ... x-vol.html

[django70]

Another comparison here is with The Doors back catalogue. Once you get past the 'Best Of' compilations that seem to be in every student flat, their fanbase can't be much bigger than the VUs (if it isat all), and yet Bright Midnight seem to put out an archive live release every few months. If it still pays the remaining band members to put stuff out that way, surely there'd be money in a VU equivelant?

Number one difference here is that the Doors themselves have been very enthusiastic about keeping the legacy going with the best possible product. I read an interview with Manzarek where he spoke of putting things that only they had in their vaults out in the traders circuit as something of a bait. The idea that their gems would bring out other peoples hidden gems as well. It seems to have worked very nicely, as the Doors have unearthed an amazing amount of high quality soundboards. Now I know the Doors are one of those bands (much like the VU) that people feel very strongly about. You either love em' or hate em'. I personally am one who is rather happy with what they have done. Until The Stones open their vaults, I think these are going to be some of the best sounding 60's soundboards that I have heard. Crisp, Punchy and with a lot of depth of sound. And that is not even addressing the performances themselves.

At first the Velvets Bootleg series was supposed to be a rather hands on Band project as well. As we well know Lou's enthusiasm for such things sours easily. At this point for something to be viable, somebody would have to do the work to get these soundboards out to the public. I personally can say I would not be over excited about any high priced deluxe releases of the same bootlegs that I've been hearing for the past 15-20 years, even if they have better noise reduction and unseen photos. For anything to realistically work something good has to give. The Stooges Ungano's show is special for the very reason that there is next to nothing around of them playing live at this time. So a decent sounding audience recording is not out of the question. However, with the VU there is alot of audience tapes floating about. Let's face it, we want something new and with a sound quality that let's the band shine. These things exist, and it would be a lost opportunity to see any new series, simply repackage the same stuff that has been around for years. For me at least, the bottom line is always going to be the music on the disc as opposed to the package it comes in.

[dial4]

Are there so much soundboard recordings from the Velvets ?

[BallroomDays67]

Number one difference here is that the Doors themselves have been very enthusiastic about keeping the legacy going with the best possible product. I read an interview with Manzarek where he spoke of putting things that only they had in their vaults out in the traders circuit as something of a bait. The idea that their gems would bring out other peoples hidden gems as well. It seems to have worked very nicely, as the Doors have unearthed an amazing amount of high quality soundboards. Now I know the Doors are one of those bands (much like the VU) that people feel very strongly about. You either love em' or hate em'. I personally am one who is rather happy with what they have done. Until The Stones open their vaults, I think these are going to be some of the best sounding 60's soundboards that I have heard. Crisp, Punchy and with a lot of depth of sound. And that is not even addressing the performances themselves.

They actually haven't unearthed much of anything. Most of the releases are 1970-era shows recorded for "Absolutely Live", in which the recordings were already in the Doors' archives. The Doors were on the decline as a live band by that time, and the glut of live releases from that period has arguably hurt their legacy. As much as I'm a fan of The Doors, there's no comparison between "Live at Max's Kansas City" and most of those live Doors releases. The Doors have acquired the master recordings from the exceptional 1967 Matrix shows, but only after having released a portion of those shows in inferior sound quality.

[django70]

Number one difference here is that the Doors themselves have been very enthusiastic about keeping the legacy going with the best possible product. I read an interview with Manzarek where he spoke of putting things that only they had in their vaults out in the traders circuit as something of a bait. The idea that their gems would bring out other peoples hidden gems as well. It seems to have worked very nicely, as the Doors have unearthed an amazing amount of high quality soundboards. Now I know the Doors are one of those bands (much like the VU) that people feel very strongly about. You either love em' or hate em'. I personally am one who is rather happy with what they have done. Until The Stones open their vaults, I think these are going to be some of the best sounding 60's soundboards that I have heard. Crisp, Punchy and with a lot of depth of sound. And that is not even addressing the performances themselves.

They actually haven't unearthed much of anything. Most of the releases are 1970-era shows recorded for "Absolutely Live", in which the recordings were already in the Doors' archives. The Doors were on the decline as a live band by that time, and the glut of live releases from that period has arguably hurt their legacy. They have acquired the master recordings from the exceptional 1967 Matrix shows, but only after having released a portion of those shows in inferior sound quality.

Well, we can agree to disagree. I will agree that the overwhelming glut of 69 era shows is not going to rope in the more moderate fans anymore. However I feel that much of what has been released showcase the band in pretty high form. If we're talking about a decline, that really boils down to Morrison. The band sounds pretty damn good on much of these recordings and they have been careful to choose shows where Jim was not shattered. When I mentioned about Manzarek and the tapes, he referenced the fact that many things recorded at that period were no longer in the possession of them or the label.

There is however a good point about hurting a legacy, and that is why future VU releases should be handled with care and patience. Much like the 67 Doors Matrix set, The Quine Tapes although great, should really have been held off on. The soundboards came up around the same time, and despite having a difficult owner, should have been secured. I love the Quine set immensely, but I think the sound quality was not up to the sort of general release it received. It just seemed at the time the response was rather lukewarm because it wasn't sonically what a lot of people expected. And sadly I think many could not get past that point and hear the great music underneath. I got the feeling that a lot of the less militant fans felt that the well was dry.

[Kill Mick]

At first the Velvets Bootleg series was supposed to be a rather hands on Band project as well. As we well know Lou's enthusiasm for such things sours easily. At this point for something to be viable, somebody would have to do the work to get these soundboards out to the public. I personally can say I would not be over excited about any high priced deluxe releases of the same bootlegs that I've been hearing for the past 15-20 years, even if they have better noise reduction and unseen photos. For anything to realistically work something good has to give. The Stooges Ungano's show is special for the very reason that there is next to nothing around of them playing live at this time. So a decent sounding audience recording is not out of the question. However, with the VU there is alot of audience tapes floating about. Let's face it, we want something new and with a sound quality that let's the band shine. These things exist, and it would be a lost opportunity to see any new series, simply repackage the same stuff that has been around for years. For me at least, the bottom line is always going to be the music on the disc as opposed to the package it comes in.

Not sure I entirely agree that it would have to be something new to grab people's attention, much as we'd all love that! I personally haven't got the wallet to shell out for 'Move Back!' or 'Psychedelic Sounds' so have had to settle for CD-R copies, so if good quality, well packaged and reasonably priced releases of the Valleydale of Gymnasium gigs (for example) were put out I'd happily snap them up. Totally agree I don't want another deluxe re-release of VU & Nico, but if it had the Norm Dolph tracks with it? There is a market for material that has only been out on bootleg (otherwise there'd be no bootleg market!).

But on the other hand, give me something new as well! It is out there - who'd have thought 'The Velvet Underground in Boston' film would have turned up after all these years? The issue, as django70 says, is the lack of will from the band. You can debate whether The Doors are damaging their own legacy with the Bright Midnight stuff (my view would be it's their legacy to damage as they wish), at least they are putting stuff out there for the fans. Why can't Lou, John and Mo do the same?!

[django70]

One thing that is true from reading all of these comments is that you can take 8 people and get as many different ideas about how these things should be done. Which really is ok. We all have different experiences as listeners as well as collectors. I guess I should note that I heard the Quine tapes both before and after release, and I must say that they did a great job cleaning them up. So doing things that have been previously available would not be out of the question if done properly. Personally I don't want to get suckered into buying yet another copy of VU&N just for a few tracks. I think (for myself at least) one place the legit labels have hurt many artists legacies is by continuing to release the same albums over and over with the occasional new track or remaster. Look at Bowie's and Costello's catalogs, how many times are they going to repackage these things? Until the day comes along that the VU gets new MIX'S from the Masters... Speaking of things that Universal screwed up. That big Deluxe release of VU&N from a few years back. Jesus...I found a better sounding copy of the mono album on bootleg!