The Velvet Forum

Heh heh heh.

Candy Velvet wrote:

mg196 wrote:I cant listen to some VU stuff during their Jam Band days. I like it when the stuff is pared down, like at Max's.

How ironic. That recording of 'Some Kinda Love' is the most "jam-band moment" of The VU.

Must be a different Max's than what I've got.

I'm talking about the 11 minute version that's also on 'EVERYTHING.......' and 'Flowers of Evil'.

tarbaby2 wrote:I'm curious about what others think about this:

My understanding of a "jam band" is one that takes songs and extends them for over 10-12 minutes: Begin the song - several (many) of improvisation along the originally introduced themes - end the song. Bands like the Grateful Dead and Phish come to mind.

Well, with all the various renditions of Sister Ray, Foggy Notion, Melody Laughter, The Nothing Song, etc. (some clocking almost 40 minutes) do the VU qualify as a "jam band"?

Thats actually a good question. I am not aware that a song has
to be extended that long, but "Jamming" is simply when every
member of the rock group works together to produce music with
no preparation and little logic of predefined arrangements.

Sister Ray is a very good example of this, but of course...
The Jimi Hendrix Experience, Cream, The Grateful Dead,
Country Joe & The Fish, and many others were believed to
be the earliest bands to engage in these "jam sessions".
The Velvet Underground came too late to the party, and thus
are ruled out in any contest involving "first ever jam band".

King Floyd wrote:
The Jimi Hendrix Experience, Cream, The Grateful Dead,
Country Joe & The Fish, and many others were believed to
be the earliest bands to engage in these "jam sessions".
The Velvet Underground came too late to the party, and thus
are ruled out in any contest involving "first ever jam band".


I agree with you. I don't know if I'm right but I think Grateful Dead was the first Jam-Band. They began to jam in 1965 and ended with the dead of Jerry Garcia in 1995. Thirty years of jam

Chris

Melody Laughter and the Nothing Song (each close to 30 minutes long) were "recorded" in November 1966 and they were doing 20 and 40 minute Sister Rays in 67 and 68

Hendrix released his first single in December 1966
Cream released their first single in October 1966
The Grateful Dead released their first single in June 1966

But I don't think any of those bands were extending any of their songs out to the 30 minute range that the VU were at this time. None of the booted concerts I have of any of them have anything even close during the same time period. Which was why I was wondering about considering the VU the first "Jam Band"

^
Sorry about that, I didn't realized that I was logged off. Thats me, just incase anyone is wondering.


tarbaby2,

The purpose of a Jam Session is less about extending a song to unbearable levels, but more about working together as an ensemble to produce music with little preperation. Jams in a live setting have a reputation for being unpredictable in length...and you bring up a good point when you mention that The Velvet Underground may have produced the earliest jams...

but you'd be impressed how interesting live performances were in the mid 1960's...we may never know who were the earliest rock groups to jam. Since Cream, Hendrix, and The Grateful dead formed before The Velvet Underground, and the fact that they were notorious for their live shows, Jazz-fused material, and improvisation - they are the likeliest suspects for this sort of acknowlegement. Jamming may not even be confined to these aforementioned groups, but progressive-based acts like Frank Zappa, Soft Machine, and Nice. You never know....

Good points, and this is the kind of discussion I was looking for when I posted this. It's just that it struck me as kind of odd wondering whether you could include the VU with the other "jam bands" because I had never really thought of them in that way until I realized how often they played "long" songs and extened them out way beyond what most other bands did.

I don't blame you, I was wondering the same thing too...and thanks for mentioning Melody Laughter and Nothing Song, almost forgot how awesome those songs were!

Don't know, but have jamming always to do with the length of a song?

Chris