The Velvet Forum

bobbydriver wrote:That news article seems to contain all the info we need in terms of
1) which ?4th album? tracks are new mixes and which are unheard original mixes
2) which Matrix performances are unheard and which are alternate sources of 1969/Quine Tapes tracks

A few other things that stood out

1) Doug Yule is interviewed for the liner notes ? presumably a new interview? I hope so. After the Hall Of Fame thing I had a feeling he might not have been involved
2) It suggests that there were two Valentin mixes (the closet mix was ?later replaced by yet another Val Valentin stereo mix?). I didn?t know that. Are they obviously different?
3) 6 of the 18 Matrix tracks are the same performances as 1969 Live, so does this hint that a full 1969 Deluxe box is NOT going to happen?

Oh and in response to the question "how much better than PSAS (for the Closet mix) and the 1996 CD (for the Valentin mix) can the mastering be? "
Well it says that all tracks will be available in HD Audio format so I guess that's better quality audio than those standard CD remasters..if you want it

And finally - we did have some official comment from Bill L that at least some of the mono mixes weren'yt fold-downs
""Jesus" is definitely not a fold down. The acoustic guitar part that normally only comes in a couple of times, during "help in my weakness" lines, plays almost continuously throughout the song. "

So there exists another, unreleased, stereo mix of the album and we're being given a fake mono "mix"?

This would be the first time a VU super deluxe set is available in HD. The stereo mixes of the first two albums were released on HDtracks.com and Blu Ray discs. A new mastering (presumably the one that will be in the 45th set) of the Valentin mix has been on HDtracks for a couple years. It's nice, but no revelation over the 1996 remaster.

"Some of the mixes weren't fold-downs", but then he only gives one example. The fake promo mono "mix" is absolutely all fold-down (unless for this set they've dropped in different mono mixes from somewhere else - like the acetate - the Sundazed LP was all fold down), so that just leaves the two single tracks as possible true mono mixes. My findings were always that these were fold downs, but after reading what Bill said about "Jesus", I just revisited the matter. I don't understand what he's saying, because I just listened to Valentin, Closet, Sundazed and the 45rpm single and the acoustic guitar is the same way on all. Maybe he didn't fold the stereo mixes to mono before comparing (which is needed when detecting fold downs vs mono mixes) and that made him hear it differently. If anyone else hears what he's saying, please explain. Still, even if the 2 single tracks are true mono, then tack them onto one of the stereo mix discs. We don't need a whole fake mono disc just for a place to put two mono single mixes. Or better yet, instead of that fake mono BS, give us a disc with the mono single, session tapes takes/mixes and the Matrix songs they're leaving off. Plus whatever else.

Well Steve Nelson could be talking out of his vested interest...

I'm not feeling the disappointment myself, but given that others are, what do we know for a fact that exists that should be on this set? Complete Matrix? La Cave? I personally don't mind if there are some things on PSAS that don't make it to these boxes. Does anyone seriously think that there won't be another release down the line that completes the Matrix stuff?

stooge wrote:in R.Unterberger's book: "4 décades later,former Tea Party manager Steve Nelson reveals that he has recently heard newly
mastered live recordings of 3 VU shows at the club from late 68 and early 69 and says that they are notably Superior to
other live recordings of the band from the same period. [...] As to whether the rest of us will ever get to hear these Tea Party tapes, Nelson says:"I' ve been sort of dying to have that released. But apparently it's tied up with various kinds of things with personnel & record companies, and all that usual drivel. I will say that to me, those are the best Velvet
Underground live performances recorder anywhere (!!!) [...]So I think that those are unquestionably the best live recordings
of the Velvets. And I hope to hell they come out some time!"


So,I think they've really missed the opportunity of doing something really nice and mindblowing with this reissue.
Where are those tapes? Who owns them?
It would have fit perfectly with the third album

I bet he's talking about the Professor tapes, probably the versions that Phil M put out through this forum!

rnranimal wrote:So there exists another, unreleased, stereo mix of the album and we're being given a fake mono "mix"?

Not 'unreleased,' it suggests that it was released down the line. I wonder if this is just badly worded, surely someone would've bought and noticed this alternative stereo mix by now. I'll take your word that the Sundazed mono is a fold, despite what my ears tell me; the mono Loaded is a fold and I hear that different too.

But the Professor tapes aren't that good, are they?

stooge wrote:But the Professor tapes aren't that good, are they?

They aren't, but if you owned some tapes and had an interest in selling them to a big record company, you might tend to hype them a little

Elvis Plebsley wrote:

rnranimal wrote:So there exists another, unreleased, stereo mix of the album and we're being given a fake mono "mix"?

Not 'unreleased' it suggests that it was released down the line. I wonder if this is just badly worded, surely someone would've bought and noticed this alternative stereo mix by now. I'll take your word that the Sundazed mono is a fold, despite what my ears tell me; the mono Loaded is a fold and I hear that different too.

Oh, if they are saying two Valentin mixes were released, they are mistaken then.

It was announced as a fold down before the Sundazed set came out, but with some special tricks or something to make it not just a straight combining of the two channels. However, no matter what type of signal manipulation was done to the sound, it's still just a fake mono "mix" created from the stereo mix without anything new.

Well, I'm excited. The third album is my favorite, and after getting the updated Valentin Mix on HDTracks, I'm excited to have an updated Closet Mix.

The mono version seems like a bit of a cash grab, as it was never released in mono originally (not even as a DJ promo, AFAIK). But I do like the mono version that came with Sundazed's box set back in 2012, and I've been listening to my vinyl rip of it a lot since then.

What I'm most excited about are the Matrix tapes. Seems like everyone was hoping for Professor/BTP tapes, but these Matrix tapes have been locked away for a good long while. I remember when the Quine Tapes came out in 2001, the Matrix owner was wondering why they put out such lo-fi recordings when he had "hours" of great-sounding soundboard tapes. Samples of these have been leaked over the past few years, and they sound phenomenal. I'm a big fan of 1969 Live With Lou Reed (some of which will be duplicated on this new set), and generally can't get enough of the VU in 1969, so I'm pretty stoked.

To be honest my issue with the mono mix isn't whether it's a stereo fold or not - I doubt my ears could tell the difference - it's the fact that it appears to be a modern mix and therefore what's the point of it? The first 2 albums had mono mixes released commercially, and Loaded had a promo mono mix. As far as I know, neither a commercial or promo mono mix was done for the 3rd Album at the time. I just think that to create a mono mix now, whether it's a fold down or not, is just a pointless exercise. You might as well stick a load of horrible strings and flutes on it and create the long lost 3rd Album Chelsea Girl mix.

You could perhaps argue that doing new mixes of the 1969 studio tracks is equally pointless, but 'proper' mixes of many of them weren't done at the time so in my opinion it's different.

I think the mono mixes of WGO and Jesus are valid for inclusion because they were released as a single at the time, as with the mono mixes from the singles on the VU&N and WL/WH 45ths. Equally, I think they were right not to include the 'mono single mixes' of Heard Her Call, Stephanie Says and Temptation Inside on WL/WH as my understanding is they are fold downs created for the Sundazed box and just as pointless as the 3rd Album mono mix.

Also, my point with the comparison to PSAS and the 1996 CD wasn't so much about the sound quality (which I accept will be better in HD Audio) but about the actual mastering - the 'sound' of the tracks as opposed to the 'sound quality'. Will the 'sound' be noticeably better?

Absolutely spot on Mick.