The Velvet Forum

alfredovu wrote:Guilty!

It's a complicated case, though. Normally, a jam would be credited to those who were there when it happened. But since quite some time lapsed between the original performance(s) with Cale and the final recording with Yule, I guess it's all about politics and crediting the current band member rather than the previous.

They could've done both of course, as The Wedding Present did during David Gedge's "equal credit" phase with "So Long, Baby" and "Catwoman" off Watusi, but obviously they didn't.

Well, do not know the reason why, but other 1969 recorded songs have been credited including Cale ( Countess, Story of My Life, Move
Right In and Ride into the Sun)

Foggy has been credited to Morrrisson/Tucker/Yule/Weiss , no Reed/Cale?? .... Weird

The song shoud be particularly impresive during that summer of 68 when it was mentioned in two different articles ( june and sept 68)

alfredovu wrote:Well, do not know the reason why, but other 1969 recorded songs have been credited including Cale ( Countess, Story of My Life, Move
Right In and Ride into the Sun)

Foggy has been credited to Morrrisson/Tucker/Yule/Weiss , no Reed/Cale?? .... Weird

The song shoud be particularly impresive during that summer of 68 when it was mentioned in two different articles ( june and sept 68)

It's interesting to look at VU and Another View . In 1984 all songs on VU were by Lou Reed including Foggy Notion (at least on the boxset version of the LP). *

When Another View appeared all songs in 1985 (inc Ride Into The Sun, Guess I'm Falling in Love, Move Right In, Hey Mr. Rain, Coney Island Steeplechase, Ferryboat Bill) were by The Velvet Underground, apart from two by Lou Reed.

But, by the time 4 Men With A Beard put out Another View in 2007 the label stated that Ride Into The Sun, Guess I'm Falling in Love, Move Right In, Hey Mr. Rain, Coney Island Steeplechase and Ferryboat Bill were all by Cale/Morrison/Reed/Tucker.

I think in the 80s, the songs were often attributed to The Velvet Underground with no distinction as to which version of the band that was. And in 1984 Lou Reed was somehow given sole rights to all songs on VU . Maybe before anyone was consulted?

I cannot find anywhere where Cale has a credit on Foggy Notion. And yet, Yule does have credit. This really implies that Foggy Notion was not even a Cale-era song but that Ferryboat Bill was. And as discussed before, Lou Reed must have been removed (or removed himself?) from the Foggy Notion credit due to Hy Weiss' rights to some aspect of the song. (Except he still gets sole credit for Foggy on the fairly recent compilation 'The Velvet Underground Story'.)


* I dont have any recent copy of VU to check the current credits,

Doesn't Unterberger's book make note of the songs being registered with ASCAP (or whatever)

The true credits would be whatever got registered. It may be that when those mid-80's comps came out, they didn't have access to the ASCAP archives, whereas now it's probably just a google search away!

So even if they played Foggy Notion with Cale, if they didn't register it until Yule was in the band that'd explain the absence of Cale in the credits

alfredovu wrote:other 1969 recorded songs have been credited including Cale ( Countess, Story of My Life, Move Right In and Ride into the Sun)

I always thought Countess's Cale credit had a strong whiff of being political in nature, a way of "redressing the balance" (as I suspect hapened with the 1966/67 Broom street demo songs but for the two already released as well) but I could of course be wrong. Move Right In and Ride into the Sun are band co-writes (Reed/Cale/Morrison/Tucker) (*).

Now, Story of My Life (a 1968 song) currently is credited to Reed alone(*), but I have seen a 70s LP reissue on MGM that clearly stated on its label that the song was written by Reed/Cale/Morrison/Tucker (can't verify because the LP was owned by a classmate of mine, whom I haven't seen for ages). Interesting... But apparently overturned.

bobbydriver wrote:Doesn't Unterberger's book make note of the songs being registered with ASCAP (or whatever). The true credits would be whatever got registered. It may be that when those mid-80's comps came out, they didn't have access to the ASCAP archives, whereas now it's probably just a google search away!

(*) Close -- it's BMI. They run an exhaustive Repertoire Database at BMI.com. This also shows Foggy Notion to be considered written by Morrison/Reed/Tucker/Weiss/Yule. Strange thing about that one is that Reed's publishing company isn't listed, even though he is credited as a co-writer.

iaredatsun wrote:In 1984 all songs on VU were by Lou Reed including Foggy Notion (at least on the boxset version of the LP). *

My copy has no writing credits at all, not on the sleeve nor on the label, which led me to believe that all songs were credited to Reed alone as per The Velvet Underground and Loaded until Peel Slowly and See told me otherwise.

iaredatsun wrote:But, by the time 4 Men With A Beard put out Another View in 2007 the label stated that Ride Into The Sun, Guess I'm Falling in Love, Move Right In, Hey Mr. Rain, Coney Island Steeplechase and Ferryboat Bill were all by Cale/Morrison/Reed/Tucker.

repertoire.bmi.com (see my earlier post) concurs but for Ferryboat Bill, which it states was written by Morrison/Reed/Tucker/Yule.

iaredatsun wrote:And as discussed before, Lou Reed must have been removed (or removed himself?) from the Foggy Notion credit due to Hy Weiss' rights to some aspect of the song.

repertoire.bmi.com's current status is that it includes Reed and Weiss, but not Cale (see earlier post).

Caridad Rodriguez wrote: repertoire.bmi.com (see my earlier post) concurs but for Ferryboat Bill, which it states was written by Morrison/Reed/Tucker/Yule.

And includes 'JOHN CALE MUSIC INC' as co-publisher...

Thanks for the BMI link.

There's also another song called Foggy Notion listed that is solely written by Hy Weiss. There must be a version out there somewhere.

http://repertoire.bmi.com/TitleSearch.a ... tles=False

Caridad Rodriguez wrote:

nkdlunch wrote:Any idea on when this might come out?

Alfredo, Sal, anyone - can you give us a hint?

Ok Caridad and folks. Estimated for November 25 (more or less).

I can give also some little comments on a couple of tracks:

Can´t Stand it
Everything recorded is perfectly audible and fresh. A big improvement compared to the 1980´s mix... Lou goes "one, two..." and they start ... no wait for three, four!!

One of These Days
As the above improvement is great plus what about an additional 20 seconds in the song? The chaotic ending has been restored to its full 4:13
At 2:36 durinmg the "uuuh" chords there is also a new one added on the right channel that I could not ear it on the 85´s mix

iaredatsun wrote:And includes 'JOHN CALE MUSIC INC' as co-publisher...

That's because Cale's publishing company represents all of the other V.U. band members' contributions, including those by Yule (even the post-Reed Squeeze ones ), just like his lawyer Chris Whent came to represent the-rest-of-the-band. So any song co-written by Morrison, Nico, Tucker and/or Yule would be published by John Cale Music on behalf of all of them, even if Cale himself wasn't involved (as per post-1968).

iaredatsun wrote:Thanks for the BMI link.
There's also another song called Foggy Notion listed that is solely written by Hy Weiss. There must be a version out there somewhere.

Note that the V.U. song and Weiss' song have consecutive BMI Work IDs (#428347 vs. #428346). Surely, a publishing registration platform of BMI's size enters tens of songs each entry run. This means they were catalogued together, i.e. in one go.

Finally, there's an oddity amongst Yule's BMI entries: a song called "Passing the Day". It is credited to Yule alone and published by Virpi Inc., the bands' old publishing company. A leftover that didn't make the switch to John Cale Music? Sadly, there is no more info on BMI on Virpi (no link -- John Cale Music yields an office address c/o Whent).

Caridad Rodriguez wrote:So any song co-written by Morrison, Nico, Tucker and/or Yule would be published by John Cale Music on behalf of all of them, even if Cale himself wasn't involved (as per post-1968).

I can talk to myself this way!

Further examples:
Chelsea Girls
Melody Laughter

(Had to put this in a separate post as the board only allows 3 urls per post.)