The Velvet Forum

Yep exactly. I'm probably being a bit harsh but what exactly is the point of taking a widely available 80s stereo mix, collapsing it to mono, then selling it as a reproduction of a 1969 single that never existed? To my mind that really is just pissing in the pool (to use one of mjg196's most memorable phrases).

I asked about the mixes of the 4th album on Sundazed facebook. Beyond saying that they will be using original analogue tapes, not digital, in answer to a subsequent question, Sundazed seem unwilling to directly address the question of the mixes at this moment. I have asked them to clarify.

Well done. To be fair to Sundazed, I don't know how many of the original '69 mixes are actually in the vault other than those released. Maybe they won't have a choice but to go with the remixes (although some more sympathetic new mixes would be even better).

Mark wrote:Well done. To be fair to Sundazed, I don't know how many of the original '69 mixes are actually in the vault other than those released. Maybe they won't have a choice but to go with the remixes (although some more sympathetic new mixes would be even better).

Mark, I certainly don't want to be unfair to Sundazed. I like them a lot as a company who care. And although it's true that we don't know the facts, we do know that many of those tracks were available on boots like Foggy Notion and Etc and NYC, before the Polydor releases. Therefore they must have existed in some form. The original Foggy EP boot, for instance, I think it's known, was taken from an acetate which must have come from a rough mix.

Sundazed must be in possession of the facts about mixes, rough, 80's or otherwise. We just need to know what we're getting into. And this is the opportunity to try and get it right as it's unlikely that there will be another release like this for years.

Generally, I think record companies need to be as transparent and responsible with this stuff as possible and Sundazed could lead the way.

EDIT:

Today a full and frank response came from Sundazed on the '69 LP which makes it all pretty clear. Thanks to them for being forthright:

As of now, we are planning on using the analog mix reels of the band approved 80's mixes. There are bits and pieces on there that no one has yet heard. The rough mixes that were done decades ago were for reference only, and are far too "rough" to use for release. Ultimately, we will go with what the band chooses.

I guess I should amend that comment to - we will use certain original mixes that WERE considered as finished mixes, in conjunction with the band-approved 80's mixes of material that only previously existed as rough mixes. I know that's sort of clunky, but that's what it is. Songs such as "Ocean," "I'm Gonna Move Right In" and "Rock N Roll" - are the 1969 mixes because usable tapes existed. The other tracks were mixed (from 12 track multis) in '84 & '86 because usable sources did not exist.

I can't quite imagine what 'band approved' meant back then. And so no original Foggy Notion. Sigh.

Track listing:

SIDE ONE

1 Foggy Notion 6:44
(Sterling Morrison/Maureen Tucker/Douglas Yule/Hy Weiss)
Recorded May 6, 1969

2 One Of These Days 3:53
(Lou Reed)
Recorded September 23, 1969

3 Lisa Says 2:55
(Lou Reed)
Recorded October 1, 1969

4 I?m Sticking With You 2:26
(Lou Reed)
Recorded May 13, 1969

5 Ocean 5:12
(Lou Reed)
Recorded June 19, 1969

SIDE TWO

1 I Can?t Stand It 3:23
(Lou Reed)
Recorded May 20, 1969

2 I?m Gonna Move Right In 6:32
(Lou Reed/John Cale/Sterling Morrison/Maureen Tucker)
Recorded September 27, 1969

3 We?re Gonna Have A Real Good Time Together 2:57
(Lou Reed)
Recorded September 30, 1969

4 Rock And Roll 5:15
(Lou Reed)
Recorded June 19, 1969

5 Ride Into The Sun 3:26
(Lou Reed/John Cale/Sterling Morrison/Maureen Tucker)
Recorded September 5, 1969

Produced and Arranged by The Velvet Underground

For those of us who want to see the original mixes released, there are a few positive indications here:

1 - the wording of the response ("as of now we are planning...") suggests that the final decision is yet to be made.

2 - the fact they talk about the "reference mixes" being "too rough to use" appears to confirm for the first time that these mixes still exist in the vault.

3 - their prompt and frank reponse to mine and Mr Datsun's comments suggests that they are prepared to listen, and who knows, might be open to persuasion.

Therefore, if anyone else regards the 1969 mixes as the only 'true' versions of this material and wants to see them released, I'd suggest heading over to http://www.facebook.com/sundazed and making your voice heard!

They talk about 'band approved' versions. It's not clear what that means if anything. Were they approved back then? If they could use the rough mixes today then would the band have to approve again? (With the current state of affairs that seems unlikely to happen.) But then UMG did release original versions of the Cale tracks on a compilation in the last few years. That alone suggest that there is no real impediment to Sundazed using the rough mixes apart from notions of quality and good taste. After all they successfully release the alt. mix to I Heard Her Call My Name which has never been heard before. We know that tracks like Foggy Notion sound fine in rough form. So is this down to band politics or marketability?

I support Mark's idea of a little lobbying on this. It's probably the last chance for a long time that we're going to get to hear the existing mixes.

With regards the '69 material I'm losing interest in a vinyl re-issue of the same tracks we have already. And they've overlooked three good songs in favour of Move Right In.

I suspect they mean original mixes that the band "approved" for the release of VU and Alternative VU

Elvis Plebsley wrote:I suspect they mean original mixes that the band "approved" for the release of VU and Alternative VU

But were the band there to oversee the mixes? Did they sign off mixes made by Bill Levensen after being given them to listen to? Which members of the band would have done that? Did they also sign off the idea that original Cale mixes were to be introduced years later for 'The Velvet Underground Gold' and NOT the ones signed off in the 80's? It sound good as an argument ? 'We're using the mixes signed off by the band' but it may not be what it seems at face value.

We Velvets fans are a peculiar and particular bunch aren't we? That can be a good thing, because the Velvet Underground are such an influential band. Inspiring to untold musicians, artists and music fans; and to most of these fans, every note is important. Every detail of the bands history is important to someone. That is why some of us will purchase every single new release; bootleg and official. A different mix or a second take can explain the unexplained. Thanks again to Sundazed for adding another chapter to the bands superb catalog.

Would they have to pay the band more to release previously unavailable mixes? Or to release new sympathetic mixes. I'd guess yes, in both cases.