The Velvet Forum

InsideTheMuseums wrote:Well, I've just found the samples nick257 has mentioned. It has been as simply as googling it.
They sound amazing, don't they? I've just downloaded it and I'm really flipping out. I had never heard the Velvets in concert with such a good quality. Never. It's a pity the songs are just excerpts...

(there's no way to obtain the full songs, right?)

Hi

and welcome to the forum from another member. There are times when there's not so much going on in the VU world and the forum is quieter, but there are always a few posts here and there to keep it going, and keep it interesting.

About the Matrix tapes - in the short term it's all about the money, and they are not likely to be released because the owner is/was holding out for a big payment from Universal. The material duplicates the Quine tapes, and they were apparently not interested. But there is an interesting twist - once the recordings are 50 years old, in approx 5 yrs time, they will in the public domain in the USA, and anyone can issue them. If UMG or the Velvet Underground Inc want to keep ownership of the recordings for another 50 yrs, they would have to release them commercially before that time. This is what the BBC did with their Beatles set they released this year and what Dylan has done with the super limited 1962 and 1963 vinyl box sets - most of that material has been circulating on good quality bootlegs for many years, but by releasing them officially the copyright is extended for another 50 yrs.

So in the next few years we should see releases of a lot of unissued 60s rock, maybe more Velvets, maybe the Matrix tapes, maybe more 1966 rehearsal tapes, maybe the Pickwick demo of Heroin linked to in the 'Lou is dead' thread in the past week, and other stuff.

simonm wrote:

InsideTheMuseums wrote:Well, I've just found the samples nick257 has mentioned. It has been as simply as googling it.
They sound amazing, don't they? I've just downloaded it and I'm really flipping out. I had never heard the Velvets in concert with such a good quality. Never. It's a pity the songs are just excerpts...

(there's no way to obtain the full songs, right?)

Hi

and welcome to the forum from another member. There are times when there's not so much going on in the VU world and the forum is quieter, but there are always a few posts here and there to keep it going, and keep it interesting.

About the Matrix tapes - in the short term it's all about the money, and they are not likely to be released because the owner is/was holding out for a big payment from Universal. The material duplicates the Quine tapes, and they were apparently not interested. But there is an interesting twist - once the recordings are 50 years old, in approx 5 yrs time, they will in the public domain in the USA, and anyone can issue them. If UMG or the Velvet Underground Inc want to keep ownership of the recordings for another 50 yrs, they would have to release them commercially before that time. This is what the BBC did with their Beatles set they released this year and what Dylan has done with the super limited 1962 and 1963 vinyl box sets - most of that material has been circulating on good quality bootlegs for many years, but by releasing them officially the copyright is extended for another 50 yrs.

So in the next few years we should see releases of a lot of unissued 60s rock, maybe more Velvets, maybe the Matrix tapes, maybe more 1966 rehearsal tapes, maybe the Pickwick demo of Heroin linked to in the 'Lou is dead' thread in the past week, and other stuff.

Hello, simonm,
Yes, I was very aware of the 1963 Dylan box sets. But, as you've already pointed, Columbia released a very limited edition (I believe it was about 200+100+100 copies), so it's almost impossible to get one of them. And I'm certainly afraid we mey very well be facing the same situation with the VU (meaning we will have to resign ourselves to having these tracks via bootlegs).
I have tried myself to get a copy of BOB DYLAN 50TH ANNIVERSARY COLLECTION 1963 (6 LPs BOX SET), but I did not manage to win the auction (I was second, actually). You can imagine how crazy the prices are getting on the lastest auctions, considering it's a 400 copies release.
Anyway, I hope I'm being wrong with the VU future releases, though. It would be great having these tracks edited through an official 'popular' edition.
Regards!

who is the owner of the Matrix tapes?

stooge wrote:who is the owner of the Matrix tapes?

Hello, stooge,
Here you can find some information about the tapes (as well as the samplers themselves).
Regards!

http://thevelvetundergroundbootlegslyok ... mpler.html
http://www.aquariumdrunkard.com/2013/04 ... x-sampler/

simonm wrote:About the Matrix tapes - in the short term it's all about the money, and they are not likely to be released because the owner is/was holding out for a big payment from Universal. The material duplicates the Quine tapes, and they were apparently not interested. But there is an interesting twist - once the recordings are 50 years old, in approx 5 yrs time, they will in the public domain in the USA, and anyone can issue them. If UMG or the Velvet Underground Inc want to keep ownership of the recordings for another 50 yrs, they would have to release them commercially before that time. This is what the BBC did with their Beatles set they released this year and what Dylan has done with the super limited 1962 and 1963 vinyl box sets - most of that material has been circulating on good quality bootlegs for many years, but by releasing them officially the copyright is extended for another 50 yrs.

So in the next few years we should see releases of a lot of unissued 60s rock, maybe more Velvets, maybe the Matrix tapes, maybe more 1966 rehearsal tapes, maybe the Pickwick demo of Heroin linked to in the 'Lou is dead' thread in the past week, and other stuff.

Simon, that's an interesting point. I presume that UMG still don't own the tapes, though. So, perhaps, in this case, it's up to the owner to make a deal with UMG (or anyone) to get them released in time or release them himself before 2019?

I wonder what happens with this copyright law when the same concert has been recorded by two separate people?

I also guess that an owner of any tape can still choose never to release them and this copyright only protects owners if, somehow, the tapes get leaked after the 50 years is up. So Hal WiIner, by playing that copy of Heroin has forced the hand of the owner to do something commercial with it in the next 2 years - as he has inadvertently (or deliberately?) made it available to anyone to release, once time is up.

We just need someone to leak Walk It And Talk It from the Gymnasium concerts tapes.

iaredatsun wrote:

simonm wrote:About the Matrix tapes - in the short term it's all about the money, and they are not likely to be released because the owner is/was holding out for a big payment from Universal. The material duplicates the Quine tapes, and they were apparently not interested. But there is an interesting twist - once the recordings are 50 years old, in approx 5 yrs time, they will in the public domain in the USA, and anyone can issue them. If UMG or the Velvet Underground Inc want to keep ownership of the recordings for another 50 yrs, they would have to release them commercially before that time. This is what the BBC did with their Beatles set they released this year and what Dylan has done with the super limited 1962 and 1963 vinyl box sets - most of that material has been circulating on good quality bootlegs for many years, but by releasing them officially the copyright is extended for another 50 yrs.

So in the next few years we should see releases of a lot of unissued 60s rock, maybe more Velvets, maybe the Matrix tapes, maybe more 1966 rehearsal tapes, maybe the Pickwick demo of Heroin linked to in the 'Lou is dead' thread in the past week, and other stuff.

Simon, that's an interesting point. I presume that UMG still don't own the tapes, though. So, perhaps, in this case, it's up to the owner to make a deal with UMG (or anyone) to get them released in time or release them himself before 2019?

I wonder what happens with this copyright law when the same concert has been recorded by two separate people?

I also guess that an owner of any tape can still choose never to release them and this copyright only protects owners if, somehow, the tapes get leaked after the 50 years is up. So Hal WiIner, by playing that copy of Heroin has forced the hand of the owner to do something commercial with it in the next 2 years - as he has inadvertently (or deliberately?) made it available to anyone to release, once time is up.

We just need someone to leak Walk It And Talk It from the Gymnasium concerts tapes.

My knowledge of copyright is UK mostly and the US system is different, but my understanding is that each recording could be copyrighted work in its own right, but it could be contested, because it might be argued that tape no2 (Matrix man's tape) is a derivative work of tape no1 (Quine's), because Quine's was the first to be legally issued. This would complicate things further.
I'm assuming that UMG don't own the physical tape no2 at the moment. If the Matrix tapes aren't judged to be a derivative work of UMG's Quine Tapes set, the owner of the tapes can sell to another company after 2019, and they don't have to pay or get permission from VU Inc, as far as I understand it.

Re the Gymnasium - I am hoping that UMG will issue the whole set separately with the sound levels problems fixed, and with the song intros and between-song twiddling and gaps included - the presentation on the 45th is pretty shoddy IMO...