The Velvet Forum

iaredatsun wrote:HDtracks wrote to me (I described my poor experience with their site) and told me that this stuff is not available outside of USA. That is why i cannot see the stuff in the links.

I guess they have no idea. I am outside of the USA and can access and navigate the site without problems...

Dynamic range comparison of the HDTracks release to a vinyl rip (US reissue).

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed folder: /Volumes/The Velvet Underground - The Velvet Underground (1969) [2012 - HDTracks 24-192]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR Peak RMS Filename
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR9 -3.09 dB -14.81 dB 01 - Candy Says.wav
DR10 -0.16 dB -11.46 dB 02 - What Goes On.wav
DR12 -0.34 dB -13.19 dB 03 - Some Kinda Love.wav
DR12 -1.69 dB -16.43 dB 04 - Pale Blue Eyes.wav
DR11 -0.50 dB -15.66 dB 05 - Jesus.wav
DR10 -0.28 dB -11.18 dB 06 - Beginning to See the Light.wav
DR11 -0.39 dB -14.52 dB 07 - I'm Set Free.wav
DR10 -1.49 dB -13.69 dB 08 - That's the Story of My Life.wav
DR10 -0.55 dB -13.42 dB 09 - The Murder Mystery.wav
DR10 -2.82 dB -16.22 dB 10 - After Hours.wav
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of files: 10
Official DR value: DR11

==============================================================================================


foobar2000 1.2.1 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1
log date: 2013-01-18 13:24:20

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed: The Velvet Underground / The Velvet Underground
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR Peak RMS Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR9 -2.55 dB -14.81 dB 4:04 01-Candy Says
DR10 -0.10 dB -11.42 dB 4:55 02-What Goes On
DR12 -0.10 dB -13.16 dB 4:03 03-Some Kinda Love
DR12 -0.73 dB -16.41 dB 5:42 04-Pale Blue Eyes
DR11 -0.10 dB -15.58 dB 3:22 05-Jesus
DR10 -0.10 dB -11.17 dB 4:40 06-Beginning to See the Light
DR11 -0.10 dB -14.51 dB 4:04 07-I'm Set Free
DR10 -0.69 dB -13.69 dB 2:04 08-That's the Story of My Life
DR10 -0.10 dB -13.17 dB 8:53 09-The Murder Mystery
DR10 -1.56 dB -14.44 dB 2:07 10-After Hours
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of tracks: 10
Official DR value: DR11

Samplerate: 192000 Hz
Channels: 2
Bits per sample: 24
Bitrate: 6091 kbps
Codec: FLAC
================================================================================

For comparison this is the 2009, Japan SHM-CD:


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed folder: /Volumes/The Velvet Underground/The Velvet Underground - The Velvet Underground (1969) [2009, Japan SHM-CD]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR Peak RMS Filename
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR9 -0.20 dB -11.58 dB 01 - Candy Says.wav
DR9 -0.29 dB -10.90 dB 02 - What Goes On.wav
DR10 -0.29 dB -11.72 dB 03 - Some Kinda Love.wav
DR12 -0.22 dB -13.75 dB 04 - Pale Blue Eyes.wav
DR10 -0.29 dB -14.46 dB 05 - Jesus.wav
DR9 -0.29 dB -9.84 dB 06 - Beginning To See The Light.wav
DR10 -0.29 dB -13.41 dB 07 - I'm Set Free.wav
DR10 -0.29 dB -12.48 dB 08 - That's The Story Of My Life.wav
DR10 -0.29 dB -12.37 dB 09 - The Murder Mystery.wav
DR10 -1.60 dB -15.66 dB 10 - After Hours.wav
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of files: 10
Official DR value: DR10

==============================================================================================

I don't know about DR, but I've been lucky enough to hear a preview of the new remastering as CD quality on my hifi.

It's the Valentin mix. It sounds very different to the old 1996 CD release. Gone is the brash brightness and the compressed sound of that CD. In it's place is a more natural openness ? with an extended bass sound and beautifully subtle renditions of the intricate guitars, the percussion and the voices.

I really look forward to it being re-released as CD and vinyl.

Just some quick information: a higher DR value is a good thing. It means that the music wasn't brickwalled/compressed and there is more range between the quiet and the louder parts of the music.
Here is some more information if you are interested: http://www.dynamicrange.de/
They also maintain a database of the DR values of different releases: http://www.dr.loudness-war.info/


Now this is interesting:

These are the waveforms of:
1. HDtracks
2. Vinyl rip of US reissue
3. 2009, Japan SHM-CD







The vinyl and the Hd are very similar. (Notice where the music kicks in louder in the right channel of the Hd.)
The Japan CD is mastered much louder. (But I have seen much worse.)

A similar comparison of some releases of VU&N

1. Early US pressing (vinyl rip)
2. MFSL CD
3. 2009, Japan SHM-CD, Deluxe Edition
4. 45th Anniversary Remaster HDtracks

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed folder: /Volumes/Velvet Underground & Nico (1967) [VINYL] {24-96} {Verve}
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR Peak RMS Filename
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR10 -2.10 dB -13.74 dB 01 - Sunday Morning.wav
DR10 -0.84 dB -13.43 dB 02 - I'm Waiting for the Man.wav
DR9 -2.61 dB -13.94 dB 03 - Femme Fatale.wav
DR12 -1.42 dB -14.03 dB 04 - Venus in Furs.wav
DR11 -2.78 dB -17.00 dB 05 - Run Run Run.wav
DR11 -2.02 dB -15.53 dB 06 - All Tomorrow's Parties.wav
DR12 -1.39 dB -16.14 dB 07 - Heroin.wav
DR11 -0.80 dB -13.22 dB 08 - There She Goes Again.wav
DR11 -2.63 dB -16.44 dB 09 - I'll Be Your Mirror.wav
DR11 -2.75 dB -16.87 dB 10 - The Black Angel's Death Song.wav
DR10 -2.43 dB -15.03 dB 11 - European Son.wav
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of files: 11
Official DR value: DR11

==============================================================================================



----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed folder: /Volumes/The Velvet Underground - And Nico (1967) [FLAC] {MFSL}
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR Peak RMS Filename
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR8 -1.32 dB -11.64 dB 01 - Sunday Morning.wav
DR8 -0.18 dB -10.05 dB 02 - I'm Waiting For The Man.wav
DR8 -0.61 dB -11.14 dB 03 - Femme Fatale.wav
DR10 -0.82 dB -12.79 dB 04 - Venus In Furs.wav
DR9 -0.40 dB -12.25 dB 05 - Run Run Run.wav
DR10 -1.62 dB -14.15 dB 06 - All Tomorrow's Parties.wav
DR11 -2.18 dB -15.55 dB 07 - Heroin.wav
DR8 -1.09 dB -10.99 dB 08 - There She Goes Again.wav
DR9 -1.19 dB -12.95 dB 09 - I'll Be Your Mirror (Monophonic).wav
DR9 -0.66 dB -14.08 dB 10 - The Black Angel's Death Song.wav
DR8 -0.91 dB -12.01 dB 11 - European Son.wav
DR11 -2.13 dB -14.98 dB 12 - All Tomorrow's Parties (Alternate Mix).wav
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of files: 12
Official DR value: DR9

==============================================================================================



----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed folder: /Volumes/The Velvet Underground - The Velvet Underground & Nico (1967) [2009, Japan SHM-CD, Deluxe Edition]/CD1
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR Peak RMS Filename
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR8 -2.62 dB -12.86 dB 01 - Sunday Morning.wav
DR9 -0.00 dB -10.47 dB 02 - I'm Waiting for the Man.wav
DR9 -0.91 dB -12.18 dB 03 - Femme Fatale.wav
DR11 -0.39 dB -12.38 dB 04 - Venus in Furs.wav
DR11 -0.00 dB -13.23 dB 05 - Run Run Run.wav
DR11 -0.75 dB -14.24 dB 06 - All Tomorrow's Parties.wav
DR11 -1.28 dB -15.77 dB 07 - Heroin.wav
DR10 -0.63 dB -12.94 dB 08 - There She Goes Again.wav
DR10 -1.65 dB -15.27 dB 09 - I'll Be Your Mirror.wav
DR10 -0.00 dB -12.70 dB 10 - The Black Angel's Death Song.wav
DR10 -0.39 dB -12.72 dB 11 - European Son.wav
DR9 -0.43 dB -12.25 dB 12 - Little Sister.wav
DR8 -2.05 dB -11.89 dB 13 - Winter Song.wav
DR11 -0.02 dB -15.59 dB 14 - It Was a Pleasure Then.wav
DR10 -2.89 dB -15.04 dB 15 - Chelsea Girls.wav
DR10 -0.75 dB -13.36 dB 16 - Wrap Your Troubles in Dreams.wav
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of files: 16
Official DR value: DR10

==============================================================================================



foobar2000 1.1.15 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1
log date: 2012-11-07 22:03:06

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed: The Velvet Underground / The Velvet Underground & Nico (45th Anniversary Remaster)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR Peak RMS Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR9 -3.37 dB -14.45 dB 2:56 01-Sunday Morning
DR8 -1.01 dB -11.39 dB 4:40 02-I'm Waiting For The Man
DR8 -3.77 dB -13.72 dB 2:39 03-Femme Fatale
DR11 -1.50 dB -14.00 dB 5:12 04-Venus In Furs
DR10 -2.39 dB -14.91 dB 4:22 05-Run Run Run
DR10 -1.97 dB -15.50 dB 6:00 06-All Tomorrow's Parties
DR11 -0.79 dB -14.93 dB 7:14 07-Heroin
DR9 -1.30 dB -12.33 dB 2:41 08-There She Goes Again
DR10 -2.35 dB -15.77 dB 2:14 09-I'll Be Your Mirror
DR9 -2.35 dB -14.07 dB 3:12 10-Black Angel's Death Song
DR8 -2.28 dB -12.60 dB 7:47 11-European Son
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of tracks: 11
Official DR value: DR9

Samplerate: 192000 Hz
Channels: 2
Bits per sample: 24
Bitrate: 5748 kbps
Codec: FLAC
================================================================================

Waveforms of:
1. [VINYL] {24-96} {Verve}
2. [FLAC] {MFSL}
3. [2009, Japan SHM-CD, Deluxe Edition]
4. HDtracks (45th Anniversary Remaster)









Again the HD is close to the original vinyl.

schnittstelle wrote:Just some quick information: a higher DR value is a good thing. It means that the music wasn't brickwalled/compressed and there is more range between the quiet and the louder parts of the music.
The Japan CD is mastered much louder. (But I have seen much worse.)

schnittstelle,
thanks for the DR comparisons. I agree that these comparisons are good for helping spot brickwalling or use of compressors in mastering. But what I meant was that the thing they don't show is the qualities of the sound reproduction. That depends on factors like the type of ADCs used, the state of the analogue equipment they used, the experience of the engineer and the decisions made in the mastering process. I think that those aspects may only reveal themselves through listening.

You're absolutely right, iaredatsun. Those graphs also can't tell much about the musical experience. The DR project and database was a good tool to make people more aware of the loudness wars and provide a tool for that discussion. I think it is a good sign to see that the later releases tend towards the way the original LPs were mastered.
It would be so easy to include a digital booklet with all that information (ADCs used, mastering credits etc.) given in it. Remember when they actually had to print that information on cardboard? Today it would just need the creation of a file that could be added to the downloads. The loss of all that information that goes together with digital downloads is a sad one.

haven't tried it.....

http://avaxhome.ws/hraphile/smasters/ve ... racks.html