The Velvet Forum

MartinVU wrote: ↑19 Dec 2021 16:50 The volume fluctuations are not on the bootleg which in addition to making it superior in my ears also makes me wonder what happened. Was the taped damaged after bootlegers used it and before universal got it or are there two different copies of the tape?

I just got the other boot (1966) yesterday. It sounds like how I remember that recording sounds so it's probably also sourced from the official super deluxe version. Quite overpriced but happy to have it on vinyl and the pressing is fine. Cover is better than you're average bootleg. I got mine from Juno (uk) and it's still available btw:

https://www.juno.co.uk/products/the-vel ... 853680-01/

Martin

Recall that Booker T from Gymnasium was used for Cale's 1991 Paris S'Éveille album. So it's possible the whole tape was digitised at that time. And then it was re-digitised later for/by UMG. The 1st bootleg probably from an/the earlier copy. And, as I'm sure has been mentioned, the rear of that 1st boot says 'thanks to G.G' - a speculativly sly (i.e. 'horse face') reference to John Cale himself.

PS. Thanks for the heads-up on Juno. I placed an order. If it comes through, I will probably cancel my 'in limbo' Forced Exposure order.

Thanks for reminding me about Booker T. I had forgotten about that. You are probably correct that the whole tape was digitized back then, at the very least they were aware of it, and it really blows my mind that it would take 20 years (17 if counting the bootleg) before the rest of the show came out because it's just soooo goood.

Maybe Lou refused to realease it because he thought his vocals were to high in the mix ("we've done the closet thing")

Makes it easier to believe Cale has more great stuff lying around though. Sometimes I think he's just messing with our heads and that he actually knows perfectly well what recordings he has and that all has been digitized and being stored well - but because of his anti-nostalgia stance none of it will be released before he retires from music.

Mercy, what a month for VU boots! I HAD to make five purchases in December, which was not friendly to my wallet. I'm waiting for arrival on both the Gymnasium—at last "The Gift" live on vinyl!—and the Valleydale Ballroom LPs. I was wondering how Melody Laughter could be around 23 minutes, and my hope is the last minute and a half of audience noise was cut, and perhaps most of the 4 and half minutes of noodling on the front end before the rhythm comes in. I could live with that. I'll report back once it arrives if anyone is interested. Whatever the case, I'm thrilled to at last have Melody Laughter on vinyl as well, as I already had the rest of the show through other boots. Hoping for an overall SQ improvement on both of these.

My 3rd album Closet Mix (VUAS Nov21 release) should also arrive soon, which is exciting and for me and adds the different take of "Some Kinda Love" to my VU vinyl.

I also grabbed the recently released "2nd Fret" LP, which was definitely a treat. SQ was noticeably improved on these very rough tapes, and at last, that "Sister Ray" fragment from the final night of their 2nd Fret stand is available (where the taper ran home to get the equipment and only caught the last 9 minutes). When the 4 tracks from 1/2/70 are paired with that anthemic, soulful Sister Ray excerpt, it makes for a great single LP. BTW, I ran a comparison of those four January 2 tracks found on my "Shiny Leather in the Dark" vinyl and this new LP sounds much better. (I don't have Searchin' For My Mainline on LP, so I can't compare the Sister Ray excerpt.) Another note: lots of rough visible scuffs on the vinyl (I got the printing with the black cover), but sound was fine. Anyway, I hadn't seen this LP mentioned on the thread so I'm including the link: https://www.discogs.com/release/1712409 ... e-2nd-Fret

Now if the other complete, and woefully low-fi, 2nd Fret set could be released on vinyl some day (and SQ improved upon in any way), I'd be thrilled. I especially want "Cool It Down" live from that set.

Finally, playing catch-up, I grabbed the "Loaded (Alternate Album)" LP from 2020, which sounded nice. (The long version of Train Round the Bend, and the Lou-sung Sweet Nuthin'!) Even if it is ported from previously released digital versions, it sounded reasonably open and full enough for me to enjoy. I had missed the "Reload" boot from many years ago, so this was a great find for me.

Hope you've all been enjoying this recent onslaught of VU boots as well. As far as I can tell, it's now possible to have all four Deluxe releases of the VU's four albums (except for that entire remaining 2nd Fret set) somehow cobbled together on vinyl. Hoping for more in 2022!

Bring on more Cale-era live shows, 2022!

Regarding Melody Laughter I'm pretty sure the missing minutes are from the beginning and it's quite allright by me.

I also enjoyed the alternate Loaded boot. Will have to check out that 2nd fret thing.

For those that missed them here's a couple of other bootlegs I bought & enjoyed this year, currently available at reasonable prices:

"The Boston Tea Party July 11th 1969" with perhaps the ultimate version of Run Run Run. Hope they reissue the rest of the BTP recordings as well since I'm missinig a couple.
https://www.juno.co.uk/products/the-vel ... 795195-01/

"Legendary guitar amp tapes vol 3" with the last 2 songs from TLGAT (Heroin & Sister Ray)
https://www.hhv.de/shop/en/item/velvet- ... e-3-523225

and on Discogs you can get the Ride into the Sun 7-inch for around 20 euros from a few sellers

Indeed, more Cale shows would be heavenly! And thanks for the tips MartinVU.

Regarding these two new double LP boots.... I received my VUAS Valleydale 1966 2LP boot, and "Melody Laughter" is precisely 23 minutes, which is 5 minutes and 20 seconds less than the full version. It includes the full beginning 5 minutes before the drumbeat, and its edits seem to be in different places, around 14 minutes, 16 minutes, (during the viola vamp dotted with some piano notes), and some edits even after Nico starts singing. It doesn't bother me too much, as you almost feel like nothing's missing and the edits are clean, but it's a shame this person couldn't find a pressing plant that could go past 23 minutes. Also, on the 2LP Valleydale 66 boot, Side B lists Femme Fatale, Venus, Black Angel's, and All Tomorrow's Parties, but actually plays like this: Femme, Venus, All Tomorrow's Parties, Herion. And then for Side C, it lists, Waiting for the Man, Heroin, Run Run Run, but actually contains All Tomorrow's, Black Angel's, and Run, Run, Run. Nothing Song sounded good, but I can't comment on any edits, as I know I have the show on the "Symphony of Sound" boot backed with my favorite of these jams from the Dom. Anyway, the sound is loud and full, and an improvement from earlier vinyls of this, even if it's a bit frayed at times. All in all, I'm happy with it, despite its flaws.

For the Gymnasium boot, again very full sound, but they moved "Guess I'm Falling in Love" before "The Gift," rather than just have a 10-minute side of the Gift only. But it sounds good (again a little frayed at times, vocals in particular, but nothing major). Perhaps a smoother sound in the "GYM 1" boot from 2008, but this new boot is totally fine with me and in general the sound is really good.

Here's what I especially like about both boots. Complete shows with John Cale finally on vinyl. It really shows how the Cale-era VU would usually open and close with these open-ended instrumentals and gives a proper sense of these shows now that Melody Laughter/Nothing Song and Booker T/The Gift are actually attached to the rest of the songs. I just wonder how many other amazing opening and closing jams they did. If only we could hear more....

The VUAS Closet Mix sounded just fine to my ears, for what is presumably a port.

...speaking of the Dom jam aka Chic Mystique on vinyl, can anybody give me an assessment of the version on the Yesterday's Parties LP?
I never bought this as i really hated the cover, but I like that track a lot. Is the sound quality good, or kind of tinny like on the Twisted Stars set? Does it have an awkward edit in the middle with a little bit of speech? I made my own CD-R from an official vhs tape release of the Jonas Mekas film it originates from, and corrected that glitch, so my CD version is probably better quality, but I feel like i should have it on vinyl some time...

Yeah, the Dom is awesome. BTW, I meant to say "All Tomorrow's Parties" not "Symphony of Sound" in my post, but for some reason can't edit it.

I can put it on and let you know. I know just how good the tape can sound though, as it's what they looped at the EPI exhibit in Pittsburgh's Warhol Museum. They showed the tools they had to make the EPI lighting effects and had a whole room with the EPI lights and the Dom recording playing. That sounded amazing. I just sat there and let the jam play through twice. After I was done I went back up to the room one last time to just soak it in again before I left. So cool. I hope it's a permanent exhibit, but I really don't know if it's still there.

Hey, simonm. OK, as I remembered, I can confirm the 1966 Dom jam sounds WAY better on the vinyl "Yesterday's Parties" album, with no spliced interruptions or cutouts, like on that CD set (not to say I'm not extremely grateful that set came out back in the day). My guess is that this is generations ahead, and it is akin to what was playing at the Warhol Musuem as well. The vinyl can be turned up very loud and still hold up great, and the sound is much more defined and present. There is some metallic, clanging percussion toward the beginning (I wonder what they were using) that sounds fine as opposed to the din of the CD version which leaves it sounding much more tinny and grating, as undefinable noise. I wonder if the vinyl source came out of the same well as what the Warhol Museum used in their EPI exhibit. While I doubt it's a soundboard, it is a great recording. At the museum, it might have been mastered a bit, or just played with great levels on high-end equipment, but the vinyl at least resembles that version where everything going on in that jam comes across quite clearly and makes its way to the front of the soundscape.

The CD version is longer, primarily containing more of the downward bent of (what I presume is) Cale's melodica playing (perhaps influenced by Steve Reich's "Melodica" from the same year). But the 24 minutes on the record contain the most dynamic parts of the jam, and may even equivocate the edit used to loop in the EPI exhibit, as I don't recall the longer section dwelling on those melodica notes in what I heard then. I honestly think it would be hard to share my positive opinion—that this is a really great jam—based on the Twisted Stars CD version because of its quality, but the vinyl makes it easy to feel that way. Simonm: I'd certainly be curious to hear your rip from the Mekas film, as I'd love to have a better digital version of this jam.

Thanks for the report! Sounds like it's worth picking up.
That LP seems quite expensive these days but I'll look out for it (I know Recordsbymail /Craig Moerer has copies, but hope to find it cheaper). I probably shared my CD of the Dom jam on here many years ago, it's from a film called 'Scenes from the life of Andy Warhol' and also includes that short bit of colour footage of the band - the pyschiatrists convention? I don't have the audio on this laptop but could find it and upload it.