The Velvet Forum

I agree that Reed and Nico's vocal are down a notch. It made me go back to the LP Down For You Is Up. This runs slow too. The difference is clear once you compare them to the Move Back Cd which sounds more like the correct speed. Also the songs have been edited differently on the 1966 CD to the Move Back CD. On the whole there is more between song tuning left in on the Move Back CD - adding sometimes an extra minute on the track.

Thank to Phil for letting us hear this.

lurid wrote:is it possible that the "master tape" for this show runs slow? I remember getting the whole show on 2 C60 cassettes back in 1984. For years I was convinced it sounded too slow, but back then there was no easy way to speed cassettes up. I eventually found someone who could do it, and it then fitted onto a C90, and sounded far better. (From memory, this is the "barking dog" version of this tape mentioned on Olivier's site)

I remember my cassette did run slow too... I believe there could be (at least) 2 different transfers (and edits) from the original master, one with less intros/tuning up/etc between songs (which is the source of the early boots and this one), and the other more complete, save for the edit on Melody (the source for Move Back). As for the speed, the source could have been slow on the master tape and digitally adjusted during remastering.
I don't think I have the skills, but it would be nice to try and reconstruct a definitive version of the tape by properly adjusting Eq and editing the missing bits from the Move Back cd... Anyone?
Doc

Also the beginning of Melody Laughter on 1966 is slightly faded in, whereas the beginning of Move Back is unedited.

upsetter wrote:
I've sped up the tracks to 109.6% which sounds just about right to my ears, and also removed a small amount of hiss. I could upload the tracks somewhere if there's interest?

I'd be interested in an upload.

so would I

Speaking of speed correction, some of Sheila Klein's second generation reel-to-reel copies of performances which he kindly provided us with are a little slow. I know this because Olivier Landemaine has uploaded a bunch of material to his website (it's tucked away in various places) and his copies are from the first generation reel-to-reel tapes. 12/12/68, for example. Olivier's copies as well as various bootlegs (i.e. cassette transfers and Sweet Sister Ray) all run at the same speed; Shelia Klein's version runs slower.

feelingfresh wrote:Speaking of speed correction, some of Sheila Klein's second generation reel-to-reel copies of performances which he kindly provided us with are a little slow. I know this because Olivier Landemaine has uploaded a bunch of material to his website (it's tucked away in various places) and his copies are from the first generation reel-to-reel tapes. 12/12/68, for example. Olivier's copies as well as various bootlegs (i.e. cassette transfers and Sweet Sister Ray) all run at the same speed; Shelia Klein's version runs slower.

Interesting - it sounds like youve put some work into this. Care to share your speed correction settings with us?

I'm confused by the instrumental lineup on "Melody Laughter" on the Valleydale Ballroom version, in particular by who is playing the piano. The natural choice would be John Cale, yet I believe I hear his viola screeching throughout most of the track, and it's doubtful he played both. Then again, it's possible that what I'm hearing as viola is actually Reed's guitar feedback. I like to imagine the piano being played by Nico, but that seems pretty unlikely. Perhaps it is instead Sterling -- I don't make out his guitar at all, which, if true, would free him to sit and plunk the rudimentary piano part.

But it does sound like Cale's style if anyone's. Maybe Sterling was playing the viola? Or perhaps Andy Warhol at the piano? Please help, before I lose my mind from pondering these possibilities!

--Phil M.

nick257 wrote:

feelingfresh wrote:Speaking of speed correction, some of Sheila Klein's second generation reel-to-reel copies of performances which he kindly provided us with are a little slow. I know this because Olivier Landemaine has uploaded a bunch of material to his website (it's tucked away in various places) and his copies are from the first generation reel-to-reel tapes. 12/12/68, for example. Olivier's copies as well as various bootlegs (i.e. cassette transfers and Sweet Sister Ray) all run at the same speed; Shelia Klein's version runs slower.

Interesting - it sounds like youve put some work into this. Care to share your speed correction settings with us?

I made only Foggy Notion from 12/12/68 "2.150" faster in Audacity, a free audio editor. You would be able to apply 2.150 to the entire performance, however that's assuming that the entire concert is the same exact speed. The concert may have been on multiple reels, and only one of the reels was slow. In which case applying 2.150 to the whole concert would make some songs accurate but make others sped up by 2.150. I think in this case every song is off by the same degree. I just applied 2.150 to Sister Ray and it sounds good and we have Olivier Landemaine's version to use for an exact match ( http://olivier.landemaine.free.fr/vu/bt ... 21268.html ), but I'm not gonna do that right now. And 2.150 is not accurate but it's a good quick estimate.

feelingfresh wrote:Speaking of speed correction, some of Sheila Klein's second generation reel-to-reel copies of performances which he kindly provided us with are a little slow. I know this because Olivier Landemaine has uploaded a bunch of material to his website (it's tucked away in various places) and his copies are from the first generation reel-to-reel tapes. 12/12/68, for example. Olivier's copies as well as various bootlegs (i.e. cassette transfers and Sweet Sister Ray) all run at the same speed; Shelia Klein's version runs slower.

I have compared the two clips that are currently available on Olivier's site with Sheila's professor tapes. Waiting for the man from 13/03/69 is exactly the same speed on both, while Olivier's version of Sister Ray from 12/12/69 is 18 seconds faster in all, which means they are pretty much the same speed given that the song is over 25 minutes long. The sound quality of Olivier's 12/12/69 Sister Ray is better quality though, so I would think that his versions are a digital transfer from the master tapes.